Difference between revisions of "User talk:Peter Z./History Notes"
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| − | == | + | == Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia == |
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'''Latin'''/Illyrian/Slavic communities history of the historic ''Republic of Ragusa'' '''&''' ''Republic of Venice'' became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia. | '''Latin'''/Illyrian/Slavic communities history of the historic ''Republic of Ragusa'' '''&''' ''Republic of Venice'' became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia. | ||
| + | {{Cquote| '''Quote''' by contemporary historian Danijel Dzino: ''Medieval studies in [[Croatia]] and in most of the former Yugoslav space were firmly rooted in political history and suffered from isolationism and lack of interest in foreign scholarship. In the [[Titoism and Totalitarianism|communist era]], especially after the 1960s, Marxist ideology and national and Yugoslav political-ideological frameworks strongly impacted on the research into medieval history in Croatia '' <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=6UbOtJcF8rQC&pg=PA43&dq=Becoming+Slav,+Becoming+Croat:+Identity+Transformations+in+Post-Roman+Medieval+studies+in+croatia&hl=en&ei=aEVLTZXLC5GevgPU26QW&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Becoming Slav, Becoming Croat: Identity Transformations in Post-Roman and and Early Medieval Dalmatia] by Danijel Dzino (p43)</ref>}} | ||
* Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. | * Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. | ||
* Republic of Venice was set up by Latin families. | * Republic of Venice was set up by Latin families. | ||
| Line 64: | Line 11: | ||
Famous mixed marriages within these communities : | Famous mixed marriages within these communities : | ||
* Roger Joseph Boskovich (Republic of Ragusa) | * Roger Joseph Boskovich (Republic of Ragusa) | ||
| − | * Fausto Veranzio (Republic of Venice) | + | * [[Fausto Veranzio]] (Republic of Venice) |
| − | + | Their family heritage were Croatian & [[Italy|Italian]]. | |
Austro-Hungarian census '''1816''' registered: 66 000 Italian speaking people among the 301 000 inhabitants of Dalmatia. | Austro-Hungarian census '''1816''' registered: 66 000 Italian speaking people among the 301 000 inhabitants of Dalmatia. | ||
| − | (ref from: Montani, Carlo. Venezia Giulia, Dalmazia - Sommario Storico - An Historical Outline) | + | ('''ref''' from: Montani, Carlo. Venezia Giulia, Dalmazia - Sommario Storico - An Historical Outline) |
| − | + | {{GKAdBrite}} | |
==Republic of Ragusa== | ==Republic of Ragusa== | ||
''Republic of Ragusa'' was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik) was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358. | ''Republic of Ragusa'' was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik) was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358. | ||
| − | The | + | The Slavs,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA39&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine+++slavs+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Neretljani&f=false When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PQpU2JGJCMwC&pg=PA24&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Venice, a Maritime Republic] by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XJAKAAAAIAAJ&q=venice+and+slav+pirates&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=4 Venice and its Story] by Thomas Okey</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=oZjpcHnxH2QC&pg=PA67&dq=Dalmatian+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=22#v=onepage&q=&f=false Great Powers and Geopolitical Change] by Jakub J. Grygiel</ref> some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population. The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=vwK4jhvjHQkC&pg=PA86&dq=dubrovnik+earthquake+of+1667&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dubrovnik%20earthquake%20of%201667&f=false Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries] by Eystein Sverre Husebye</ref> which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture). |
In John Van Antwerp Fine's book ''"When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans"'' the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=identity+in+dubrovnik&source=bl&ots=d90RrUeZKC&sig=Go7muOWSJwxT5CiJZJX8i0FaC0Q&hl=en&ei=XtlMTNnEN4eiuQOPkbS7Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=identity%20in%20dubrovnik&f=false When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref> | In John Van Antwerp Fine's book ''"When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans"'' the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=identity+in+dubrovnik&source=bl&ots=d90RrUeZKC&sig=Go7muOWSJwxT5CiJZJX8i0FaC0Q&hl=en&ei=XtlMTNnEN4eiuQOPkbS7Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=identity%20in%20dubrovnik&f=false When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref> | ||
| − | There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) <ref>Encyclopedia Britannica:19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central Europe and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity. </ref> of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the [[Austria|Austro-Hungarian | + | There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) <ref>'''Encyclopedia Britannica''':19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central [[Europe]] and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity. </ref> of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the [[Austria|Austro]]-Hungarian Empire (then called the Habsburg Monarchy). The second theory is that it was much earlier. |
===Sir John Gardner Wilkinson=== | ===Sir John Gardner Wilkinson=== | ||
Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology". He was in Dubrovnik in 1848, this is what he wrote in his "Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina": | Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology". He was in Dubrovnik in 1848, this is what he wrote in his "Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina": | ||
| − | + | {{Cquote|''Their language though gradually falling into Venetianisms of the other Dalmatians towns, still retains some of that pure Italian idiom, for which was always noted.'' (page 362)}} | |
| − | + | {{Cquote|''Italian is spoken in all the seaports of Dalmatia, but the language of the country is a dialect of the Slavonic, which alone is used by peasants in the interior.''(page 4)}} | |
| − | + | ===Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide)=== | |
| − | + | *Dalmatia-The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide from COSIMO books and publications [[New York]] USA): | |
| + | {{Cquote|''Two hundred years later that, is, early in the tenth century you might have heard Slavish and Latin spoken had you walked in the streets of Ragusa, just as you hear Slavish and Italian''' today'''; for as times of peace followed times of war, the Greek and Roman inhabitants of Rausium intermarried with the surrounding Slavs, and so a mixed race sprang up, a people apart from the rest of Dalmatia.'' (p121) <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EcvNw81I3hkC&pg=PA121&dq=Dalmatia:+The+Land+Where+East+Meets+West+Slavish+and+Italian+today&hl=en&ei=J46dTKDEF4XOvQOT_PS4DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West] by Maude Holbach (p121) | ||
| + | * "DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom" | ||
| + | * [http://www.cosimobooks.com/cosimo/about.html Web site: www.cosimobooks.com]</ref>}} | ||
''Editor's notes'': It's quite possible that the Republic was for centuries a multicultural and ''multiethnic'' society! It's ruling class were of mostly of Latin decent, but not all! | ''Editor's notes'': It's quite possible that the Republic was for centuries a multicultural and ''multiethnic'' society! It's ruling class were of mostly of Latin decent, but not all! | ||
| − | [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 13 | + | [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 06:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC) |
== When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine == | == When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine == | ||
| − | *[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA62&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Neretljani] | + | *[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA62&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Neretljani here] |
| + | |||
| + | * [http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA30&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Contradict himself here] | ||
| − | * [http:// | + | * [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com here] |
| − | + | == Croatia DNA-Test == | |
| + | Taken from [http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com] <ref>[http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com]</ref> | ||
| + | *Illyrian People 34% | ||
| + | *Slav 20% | ||
| + | *Celtic 18% | ||
| + | *Teuton 12% | ||
| + | *Phoenician 8% | ||
| + | *Hellenic People 8% | ||
| + | (Editors notes: Oh Dear!) | ||
==References== | ==References== | ||
| − | < | + | <references/> |
| − | |||
| − | |||
Latest revision as of 09:38, 21 July 2011
Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia
Latin/Illyrian/Slavic communities history of the historic Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia.
| “ | Quote by contemporary historian Danijel Dzino: Medieval studies in Croatia and in most of the former Yugoslav space were firmly rooted in political history and suffered from isolationism and lack of interest in foreign scholarship. In the communist era, especially after the 1960s, Marxist ideology and national and Yugoslav political-ideological frameworks strongly impacted on the research into medieval history in Croatia [1] | ” |
- Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families.
- Republic of Venice was set up by Latin families.
(Venice acquired Slavic & other Latin populations through conquering)
Slavic communities later became part of these City States, which later became Republics.
Famous mixed marriages within these communities :
- Roger Joseph Boskovich (Republic of Ragusa)
- Fausto Veranzio (Republic of Venice)
Their family heritage were Croatian & Italian.
Austro-Hungarian census 1816 registered: 66 000 Italian speaking people among the 301 000 inhabitants of Dalmatia.
(ref from: Montani, Carlo. Venezia Giulia, Dalmazia - Sommario Storico - An Historical Outline)
Republic of Ragusa
Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik) was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358.
The Slavs,[2][3][4][5] some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population. The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,[6] which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).
In John Van Antwerp Fine's book "When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans" the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.[7]
There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) [8] of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (then called the Habsburg Monarchy). The second theory is that it was much earlier.
Sir John Gardner Wilkinson
Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology". He was in Dubrovnik in 1848, this is what he wrote in his "Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina":
| “ | Their language though gradually falling into Venetianisms of the other Dalmatians towns, still retains some of that pure Italian idiom, for which was always noted. (page 362) | ” |
| “ | Italian is spoken in all the seaports of Dalmatia, but the language of the country is a dialect of the Slavonic, which alone is used by peasants in the interior.(page 4) | ” |
Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide)
- Dalmatia-The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide from COSIMO books and publications New York USA):
| “ | Two hundred years later that, is, early in the tenth century you might have heard Slavish and Latin spoken had you walked in the streets of Ragusa, just as you hear Slavish and Italian today; for as times of peace followed times of war, the Greek and Roman inhabitants of Rausium intermarried with the surrounding Slavs, and so a mixed race sprang up, a people apart from the rest of Dalmatia. (p121) [9] | ” |
Editor's notes: It's quite possible that the Republic was for centuries a multicultural and multiethnic society! It's ruling class were of mostly of Latin decent, but not all! Peter Z. 06:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine
Croatia DNA-Test
Taken from www.igenea.com [10]
- Illyrian People 34%
- Slav 20%
- Celtic 18%
- Teuton 12%
- Phoenician 8%
- Hellenic People 8%
(Editors notes: Oh Dear!)
References
- ^ Becoming Slav, Becoming Croat: Identity Transformations in Post-Roman and and Early Medieval Dalmatia by Danijel Dzino (p43)
- ^ When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans by John Van Antwerp Fine
- ^ Venice, a Maritime Republic by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24
- ^ Venice and its Story by Thomas Okey
- ^ Great Powers and Geopolitical Change by Jakub J. Grygiel
- ^ Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries by Eystein Sverre Husebye
- ^ When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans: by John Van Antwerp Fine
- ^ Encyclopedia Britannica:19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central Europe and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity.
- ^ Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (p121)
- "DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom"
- Web site: www.cosimobooks.com
- ^ www.igenea.com
