The uneducated list

Jan-Bart de Vreede

From: Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart@wikimedia.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 21:12:30
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Foundation-l] Announcing Wikimedia Education List

Hi All,

We would like to take this opportunity to announce the new Wikimedia Education list. During the past Wikimania conferences we seen incredible examples of educational use of Wikimedia Projects or Content. During the recent chapter conference in Berlin we saw some more. These are often not related to a specific project and often have subject matter which involves a different audience than the other general mailing lists. Thats why we decided to start a new mailing list which will hopefully foster creative discussion on the topic at hand.

So what would we like to discuss on this list:

• Educational use of Wikimedia content or projects
• Best practices
• Educational Licensing
• Educational Outreach
• Other Open Educational Resource Projects
• Anything else that is education related :)

Everyone is welcome to post to the list. You can subscribe to the list at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education . The list will be moderated by Cormaggio, Jan-Bart and Louriepieterse.

Hope to see you there!

Cormaggio, Jan-Bart and Lourie

PS: Small disclaimer: although Jan-Bart is a member of the Board of Trustees, this is not an official WMF initiative, but a community initiative.

Wikimania in Haifa

Downtown Haifa

From: Frank Schulenburg <fschulenburg@wikimedia.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:03:02
To: education@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Education] Wikipedia and Education: Wikimania in Haifa

Hi All,

Wikipedia and Education seems to be one of the trending topics. There's a lot of excitement when it comes to using Wikipedia in the classroom and I know that quite a few Wikimedia chapters and academic institutions are thinking about getting more active in this area.

The Wikimania conference is a great opportunity for looking back to what has been achieved in the past and for planning the future. That's why I thought is might be a good idea to direct your attention to the education related submissions for this year's conference in Haifa, Israel.

Below you'll find a list of the existing education related submissions -- maybe some of the subscribers on this list have some more ideas for proposals.

Also: I would be interested in meeting those of you who are planning to go to Haifa and who are interested in Wikipedia and Education. How about if we have an informal get-together during Wikimania?

http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_in_Education:_Wikimania_2011

Frank

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 02:54:36
To: education@lists.wikimedia.org
From: "Virgilio A. P. Machado" <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Subject: Re: [Education] Wikipedia and Education: Wikimania in Haifa

Great idea. It will not be ready for Wikimania in Haifa, this year, but I just added to my list of case studies: "The crusaders against education in the Brazilian Wikipedia." Right now it is an unfinished case because the crusade is still raging at full throttle in the Brazilian Wikipedia, thanks to... YOU. That's right, YOU. It is all happening under your very noses, using the resources that the Wikimedia Foundation makes available to the gang that runs the Brazilian Wikipedia. A word of warning, also, to all the donors to the Wikimedia Foundation whose money is unwittingly being used to support that big sham called Portuguese Wikipedia. Sounds dramatic, exaggerated, overblown? I wouldn't believe it myself if I were not there, right on top of the list of those blocked to infinite for daring, for trying such foolish endeavor. My worst sin, I'm very sorry to say: being a Portuguese university professor trying to run a successful higher education project in a Wikipedia dominated by Brazilian highschoolers. In the mean time, have fun in Haifa, patting each other on the back for a job well done.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado

---

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:00:00
From: Sonia Newton-Shostakovich
To: education@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Education] Wikipedia and Education: Wikimania in Haifa

With all due respect, if you believe something is an issue and that people can help rectify it, it's probably not the best idea to single them out for the blame when they have had no part in shaping the situation. If you clarified what exactly the issue is with regard to the project in question, people might actually be able to investigate your complaint and see what can be done.

Sonia

Appropriate tone for this list...

Tone scale

From: Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart@wikimedia.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:41:31
To: "education@lists.wikimedia.org" <education@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Education] Appropriate tone for this list...

Hello Everyone,

Well, it took us four emails on this list in order to reach the moment where someone started being negative in tone.

The reason we started this list was to exchange ideas in a positive atmosphere. There are incredible examples (best practices) on how to use Wikimedia content en projects in an educational setting. We can share these and point out opportunities to one another. One of the people I talked to when discussing this list stated that for him it was important that the tone of the list be positive, but above all: constructive.

Therefore this list is not a place to:

1) Antagonize one another or show a lack of respect to individuals
2) Continue crusades which are already being fought on other platforms (however just they may be)
3) Be close-minded

If people can't abide by these guidelines, please feel free to unsubscribe and "take it elsewhere". If you have suggestions for other guidelines to make this a welcoming place, feel free to mail me.

In support of Frank's suggestion I think it would be great to get together in a larger setting of some kind at wikimania. When looking at

http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_Papers (PS: your deadline for adding proposals is the 30th of april)

I see a lot of educational talks. Every year we have more and more of these at Wikimania, and every year we see more cool cases and theory. Can we come up with suggestions for doing something special at Wikimania this year where we can celebrate this and have an informal get together?

Jan-Bart

---

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:41:17
From: Andrew Owens
To: education@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Education] Appropriate tone for this list...

Agreed.

Two points that come to mind:

• We're all working in distant locations around the globe, and sometimes it's easy to feel like one is isolated or alone in trying to get something going - maybe even get disheartened and give it up. At events such as the Chapters meetings and Wikimania, however, there is a tremendous amount of goodwill and willingness to share and help each other, and an amazing variety of projects going meaning that one doesn't have to start from scratch or "re-invent the wheel", and this list is an opportunity to make sure that such momentum isn't limited to those 5 or 6 days of the year when we do all meet.

• Different people's and countries' circumstances will necessarily be different as we're working with different institutions, bureaucracies, curricula, mindsets, cultures - that's part of the fun of being part of a global enterprise. What works in one part of the world may not work in another, or may work only to some extent before significant "tweaking" is needed. It's a good argument for a decentralised, collaborative approach to these things and I think the more we can achieve this way, the more recognition we'll get as a movement from WMF that we are the best agents of change in our respective parts of the world with regard to their mission so far as it extends to education and educational institutions/projects.

I also like the idea of doing something special and having an informal get-together at Wikimania. :)

kindest regards
Andrew.

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:35:32
From: Kathi Fletcher
To: education@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] [Education] Appropriate tone for this list...

Hi all,

I am mostly lurking here, because as a part of my fellowship with the Shuttleworth Foundation I am working on ways for open education resource repositories to be more interoperable and remixable, and looking at how communities generate and use content.

At a recent keynote by John Seely Brown, he passed on a wonderful definition of "critique". He was talking about the power of the "studio" model for education. In a studio, both masters and peers provide critiques and others working in the studio can each overhear and benefit. It seems relevant to this discussion.

So here is the definition, paraphrased to the best of my recollection:

Critique: Advice that moves a project forward along the project's own trajectory and within the perspectives of the project's team.

Kathi

Farewell

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 21:31:52
To: education@lists.wikimedia.org
From: "Virgilio A. P. Machado" <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] [Education] Appropriate tone for this list...

Sorry, wrong list. Please disregard my previous post with my apologies.

Exit

Exit Direction

Sonia, please get in touch on or off-list with Jan-Bart, he seems to be well informed and capable of giving you a more unbiased description of what has being going on than myself, being one of the interested parties, and report on whatever advice he has given, so far, to help move the education "project forward along the project's own trajectory and within the perspectives of the project's team." on the Brazilian Wikipedia.

Well, it took us three emails on this list in order to reach the moment where someone started being negative in tone.

The reason we started this list was to exchange ideas in a positive atmosphere. There are incredible examples (best practices) on how to use Wikimedia content on projects in an educational setting. We can share these and point out opportunities to one another. You don't have to talk to anybody to know that it is important that the tone of the list be positive, but above all: constructive.

Therefore this list is not a place to:

1) Antagonize one another or show a lack of respect to individuals
2) Continue crusades which are already being fought on other platforms (however just they may be)
3) Be close-minded

If people can't abide by these guidelines, please feel free to unsubscribe and "take it elsewhere". If you have suggestions for other guidelines to make this a welcoming place, feel free to mail tis list moderators.

I see a lot of educational talks. Every year we have more and more of these at Wikimania, and every year we see more cool cases and theory. Can we come up with suggestions for doing something special at Wikimania this year where we can celebrate this, have an informal get together, and pretend that everything is just swell?

"We're all working in distant locations around the globe, and sometimes it's easy to feel like one is isolated or alone in trying to get something going - maybe even get disheartened and give it up. At events such as the Chapters meetings and Wikimania, however, there is a tremendous amount of goodwill and willingness to share and help each other." Not in the Brazilian or Portuguese chapters, and certainly not in Wikimania, as stated by Jan-Bart de Vreede.

"What works in one part of the world may not work in another, or may work only to some extent before significant "tweaking" is needed." What led you to assume that not enough "tweaking" was done in order to ensure that it would work. Could you please present some evidence to support your assumption?

"It's a good argument for a decentralised, collaborative approach to these things" I thought so too, until told that "If people can't abide by these guidelines, please feel free to unsubscribe and "take it elsewhere". How about that for not "Antagonize one another or show a lack of respect to individuals." "Continue crusades which are already being fought on other platforms (however just they may be)", "Be close-minded."

One would expect from an education environment of any kind to find a high level of understanding of the Principles of Fairness, Integrity, Honesty, Human dignity, Service, Excellence, Potential, Growth, Patience, Nurturance, and Encouragement, not the kind of gross statements like those above.

Since nine messages were used to deal with a technical suggestion, it might be worth considering changing the name and focus of this list to "instruction." Education is a concept way above and much broader.

I was not aware that one of the objectives of this list was to obtain "more recognition [...] as a movement from WMF that we are the best agents of change in our respective parts of the world with regard to their mission so far as it extends to education and educational institutions/projects." Of course that assumes that you are from the right parts of the world, the rest be damned.

Thank you Kathi. Thank you for being so brave. My great respects to a lady from such an amazing part of the world. That was the kind of critique that I was expecting from educators: "Advice that moves a project forward along the project's own trajectory and within the perspectives of the project's team." I hope you will give me the honor to keep in touch. You might be of great help in keeping my tone appropriate to a general audience and avoid being told to "take it elsewhere."

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)

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