User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2012-08-07
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--- Log opened Tue Aug 07 00:00:59 2012
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00:12 < Shearonink> If anyone's around who knows how to fix this, please take a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vbvan#Question_about_how_to_report_duplicated_pages
00:13 < Shearonink> Duplicate articles about same film, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_Stage_%281919_film%29 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_Stage_%281919_movie%29
00:15 < Shearonink> Thanks
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00:21 < OlEnglish> i get so much satisfaction out of the thought that even my one small typo fix has made a difference to the overall quality of the project.
00:21 < OlEnglish> thank you thank you
00:22 -!- delirious [~jessica@S0106586d8f57219e.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:23 < OlEnglish> hey delirious
00:23 < delirious> hello
00:23 < OlEnglish> you're with Shaw Cable ;)
00:23 < OlEnglish> so am i
00:23 < delirious> you were too last i looked
00:23 < OlEnglish> where are you from again?
00:24 < delirious> from or at ?
00:24 < OlEnglish> at
00:24 < OlEnglish> i guess
00:24 < OlEnglish> as in what city
00:24 < delirious> Calgary
00:24 < OlEnglish> do you currently reside
00:24 < OlEnglish> ah
00:24 < delirious> not from here. consider myself a foreigner in a strange land
00:24 < OlEnglish> i wish there were more wikipedians in surrey :(
00:25 < OlEnglish> where do you want to be delirious?
00:25 -!- Barras is now known as lazy
00:26 < OlEnglish> bare-ass!
00:26 < delirious> i am from a land of lakes and trees and hills and mini mountains and rivers here it is open flat land of grass
00:26 < OlEnglish> sounds beautiful
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00:26 < OlEnglish> yeah the prairies don't have much scenery
00:27 < OlEnglish> at least you don't live up in edmonton, now that's an ugly city
00:27 < OlEnglish> hi aude
00:27 < Shearonink> hey, what *is* the policy about duplicate articles
00:27 < delirious> ever seen Nose Hill ? ppl here think it is amazing. i think it is a stupid baren hill
00:28 < OlEnglish> Shearonink: there isn't one.. we just merge/redirect one to the other, usually the newer one to the older one
00:28 * jorm cracks his neck; prays for death.
00:28 * delirious thinks jorm fell off Nose Hill ;)
00:28 < OlEnglish> i think there's a category:duplicate articles too
00:28 < Shearonink> the newer one is a a stub with little meaningful content
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00:29 < OlEnglish> so copy whatever content isn't already in the older one and redirect, or delete if it's an unlikely title to be searched for
00:29 < Shearonink> not sure about the titles (MoS?)
00:29 < jorm> who knows whose death i'm praying for?
00:29 < Shearonink> yours
00:29 < OlEnglish> jorm: jimbos?
00:30 < OlEnglish> it's no secret jorm..
00:30 < jorm> what? no. not jimbo.
00:30 < OlEnglish> we all knew you've had it in for jimbo
00:30 * Apheori dies.
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00:30 < Shearonink> OlEnglish: Ummm...I can't delete it, not an admin...
00:31 -!- IDoH [~I@wikipedia/I-dream-of-horses] has quit [Quit: IDoH]
00:31 < OlEnglish> where is it
00:31 < Shearonink> I think I'd hav to nom it for dletion I guess
00:31 < OlEnglish> give it here
00:31 < Shearonink> one momemnt
00:31 * OlEnglish cracks his knuckles
00:31 < Shearonink> I am hoem after having one of the worst vacations ever
00:31 < Shearonink> I need strong drink
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00:32 < Shearonink> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_Stage_%281919_film%29
00:32 < Shearonink> older article^^^
00:32 < OlEnglish> who saw the global notice?
00:33 < Shearonink> new/badly-sourced stub... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_Stage_%281919_movie%29
00:33 < Shearonink> what glocal notice
00:33 < Shearonink> wut global notice
00:33 < OlEnglish> -jtrucks- [GLOBAL NOTICE] The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice.
00:34 < Shearonink> heh
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00:34 < OlEnglish> /mode OlEnglish +w
00:34 < OlEnglish> lets you see wallops
00:34 * Shearonink doesn't get global notices apparently
00:34 * SigmaWP wallops OlEnglish
00:34 < OlEnglish> thanks for that
00:35 < jorm> you guys have read this, right? http://joelrunyon.com/two3/an-unexpected-ass-kicking
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00:35 < jorm> because you should.
00:35 < jorm> and then think about doing things no one has ever done.
00:35 < OlEnglish> ew qwebirc
00:38 < SigmaWP> mind = blown
00:38 * Shearonink is in *here* using webchat because /me is a technoilliterate
00:38 < Shearonink> jorm: That was a great column
00:39 < SigmaWP> Shearonink: Make a better IRC client
00:39 * Shearonink hangs head in shame
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00:43 < Shearonink> http://www.google.com/doodles/hurdles-2012
00:43 < Shearonink> fun
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00:44 < Shearonink> netsplitnetsplit
00:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ToBeFree
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00:49 < OlEnglish> i did that
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01:01 < Shearonink> thanks to whomever fixed those dupe articles
01:03 < SigmaWP> np
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01:08 < mareklug> someone give me ip of opendns, please
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01:09 < RudyValencia> 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220
01:09 < mareklug> thank you RudyValencia
01:10 < SigmaWP> res4 = http.request("get", "localhost/cgi-bin/ptrain.py")
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01:15 < Sp33dyphil> hello!!
01:15 < mareklug> hmm. i seem to have network connectivity, kind of. but ping 208.67.222.222 is the only thing that returns times. ping 8.8.8.8 or ping google.com or ping mit.edu or its ip don't. and my browsers fail to load, but network diagnostics say ok.
01:17 < SigmaWP> ping 127.0.0.1
01:17 < SigmaWP> :)
01:17 < mareklug> 64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=0.064 ms
01:18 < mareklug> gimmie some ip to ping
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01:21 < mareklug> hmm, wikipedia just loaded after a long while in chrome
01:21 < SigmaWP> y u no firefox
01:22 < OlEnglish> a cklosed halfg loop right?
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01:22 < OlEnglish> oops ignore that
01:22 < mareklug> must have been a comcast moment, cuz now all loads
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01:24 < Tanvir> Cruel Talibans are killing innocent asses! :-(
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01:38 < IRWolfie-> it seems belchfire is determined to make controversial articles; he's now constructing "gay militants"
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01:42 < Mdann52> Oh....
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01:46 < IRWolfie-> Can I preempt it being moved into article space by nominating it for AfD not MfD?
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01:51 < Mdann52> Can't you speedy it?
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02:02 < IRWolfie-> Mdann52: speedy doesn't apply
02:03 < IRWolfie-> I'll just wait it out, not that many editors look at MfD so it will reach a better consensus when it hits article space
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02:33 < Jaliz> salaaaaaaaam
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02:37 < BlastHardcheese> i?
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04:31 < RD> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/daily-article-l/2012-August/002200.html
04:31 < RD> Jimmy is famous.
04:32 -!- Gryllida is now known as gry
04:32 < foks> lol
04:33 < foks> move over Confucius
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05:09 < foks> wtf, every single time I load Steam it tells me to revert back to the non-beta version
05:09 < RD> Did you revert?
05:10 < RD> :P
05:10 < foks> Well I've restarted it a number of times
05:10 < foks> I think Steam just hates my laptop
05:10 < RD> My laptop hates steam.
05:11 -!- lukas23456789 is now known as lukas23
05:11 < foks> I hate Steam.
05:11 < foks> Unfortunately I have to run it in the background so this game works.
05:11 < foks> Grr.
05:15 < closedmouth> steam works fine for me
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05:19 < closedmouth> opting in for the betas is usually a bad idea
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05:29 < foks> closedmouth, I don't recall ever doing so
05:29 < foks> I use Steam only when I have.
05:29 < foks> * to
05:29 < Susuke_Tamagawa> agreed, for whatever reason the platform hates my computer as well
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05:42 * foks eyes bca
05:42 * bca eyes foks back... (Didn't mean to do that, slip of the fingers on the arrow keys :P)
05:42 < foks> ;)
05:42 * wctaiwan breaks something
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06:30 < froodonwheels> Fuck this.
06:31 < froodonwheels> My Internet has been out for nearly 12 hours.
06:31 < foks> OH GOD
06:31 < foks> How have you coped
06:32 < froodonwheels> And phone. Guess how people in this house get jobs?
06:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wait
06:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> so you are still... alive
06:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I suppose you are abusing your bw right now
06:33 < yuvipanda> Does this pass the notability guideline for catastrophes?
06:34 < froodonwheels> The fact that we pay almost $200 a month and have hours upon hours of down time is upsetting.
06:35 < Susuke_Tamagawa> wow, how many other people get this spotty service? Any way you can change providers?
06:35 < foks> froodonwheels, complain loudly
06:35 < foks> How to achieve anything ever
06:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> a lot of people have a single option for their "fast" internet
06:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> there isnt much room to complain
06:35 < froodonwheels> They monopolise this area.
06:36 < Soapy> hi Frood
06:36 < closedmouth> $200? nice deal you got there
06:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> 200$ shitty service = win
06:36 < Soapy> susuke: dont know where you live, but
06:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> at least it isnt over 9000$
06:36 < Soapy> it's pretty common in the USA for high speed Internet service providers to have monopolies or near-monopolies on their service
06:36 < Soapy> if you want to settle for LOW speed, sure, you have plenty of choices
06:37 < Soapy> usually therell be one cable provider, that does TV, Internet, and phone if you really want it
06:37 < Soapy> metro areas and outlying suburbs have DSL, but still usually just one company
06:37 < Soapy> and thats pretty much it
06:37 < froodonwheels> We don't even have a dsl option
06:37 < Soapy> the TV monopoly is much worse of a problem, imo, than the Internet almost-monopoly
06:37 < froodonwheels> It's this, or satellite Internet.
06:38 < Susuke_Tamagawa> But that's mostly because of the cost of putting in underground cables
06:38 < Soapy> but they both lead to higher prices and careless customer service because the company knows youre very unlikely to cancel
06:38 < Susuke_Tamagawa> Is satellite less secure, what's the issue with satellite
06:38 < Soapy> susuke: Im guessing youre not in the USA
06:38 < Soapy> underground cables are pretty rare here
06:38 < Soapy> yes some places have them. like South Florida, because of all the thunderstorms
06:38 < Soapy> maybe in the Midwest too because they also have a lot of thunder
06:39 < Soapy> but the country as whole generally doesnt
06:39 < Susuke_Tamagawa> Now I know, thanks
06:39 < Soapy> oop, I whoised you and you live in the USA
06:39 < foks> Fail'd
06:39 < Susuke_Tamagawa> lol
06:39 < foks> ;)
06:39 < wctaiwan> what's wrong with "failed", foks?
06:40 < Soapy> but underground cables, for power or anything else, are pretty rare generally
06:40 < foks> Es are so mainstram
06:40 < wctaiwan> I suppose the verbification of a noun that's actually a bastardised verb sort of matters...
06:40 < wctaiwan> haha.
06:40 < Soapy> as for satellite Internet, I think it's just slow
06:40 < Soapy> it's a limit of the technology
06:40 < foks> Google Doodle is ace today!
06:40 < Soapy> possibly also unreliable, but I wouldnt know, Ive never used it
06:41 < wctaiwan> ah so that's what bca was referring to.
06:41 < closedmouth> massive latency
06:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Soapy everyone should get a fiber connection
06:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> all tv, phone, internet services should be through it
06:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> people shouldnt be paying for tv and phone
06:43 < froodonwheels> The phone is voip here.
06:43 < froodonwheels> So no, we shouldn't pay for it.
06:44 < Susuke_Tamagawa> But someone has to
06:44 < Susuke_Tamagawa> and if the government takes over it'll only get worse
06:44 < Soapy> I dont think you can do TV over "fiber"
06:44 < wctaiwan> foks: managed to get 3 medals yet?
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06:44 < Soapy> thats why the cable companies ultimately win
06:44 < wctaiwan> (on the doodle)
06:44 < foks> nope
06:44 < Soapy> Internet-only companies can give you Internet and phone, but not TV
06:44 < foks> I keep tiring after about halfway
06:44 < foks> :(
06:44 < froodonwheels> Soapy: you can
06:44 -!- rschen7754 [~rschen775@wikipedia/rschen7754] has joined #wikipedia-en
06:45 < wctaiwan> I'm suspecting it might be better just to forget about jumping :p
06:45 < froodonwheels> Google, Comcast, et al. do it.
06:45 < Soapy> Comcast is a cable company, I think. Google doing TV is news to me
06:45 < wctaiwan> okay, nope it isn't.
06:45 < Soapy> unless youre thinking of Google TV
06:45 < Soapy> which isnt really TV, in my understanding
06:46 < Soapy> it's just a way to access video files on the Internet
06:46 < Soapy> there's no direct access to any live broadcasts unless the network doing the broadcast chooses to make it available online
06:46 < froodonwheels> Google Fiber
06:46 < foks> My best time is 13 seconds
06:46 < foks> :P
06:47 < wctaiwan> mine is 15.4
06:47 * wctaiwan gives up
06:49 < The_Thing> Yep, Demonoid is down forever.: http://torrentfreak.com/demonoid-operators-face-criminal-investigation-in-mexico-120807/
06:49 < closedmouth> i'd try it but my keyboard's batteries are charging
06:50 < closedmouth> demonoid sucked anyway
06:50 < foks> never heard of demonoid
06:50 < foks> :P
06:50 < foks> 12.6s
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06:51 < wctaiwan> 14.6s whoo >.>
06:51 < wctaiwan> gold yet?
06:51 < wctaiwan> I mean, 3 medals.
06:51 * closedmouth only uses private trackers
06:51 < foks> nope
06:51 < wctaiwan> I can get 3 medals quicker with photoshop than I can with this >.>
06:51 < The_Thing> Demonoid used to be a private tracker... till they made the mistake of making everything public
06:52 -!- aoke1989 [~Administr@wikipedia/Aoke1989] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:52 < The_Thing> Then it got a large amount of leechers and shit, and that's probably what attracted attention to them
06:53 -!- Coldplay is now known as coldplay
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06:55 < Soapy> how long till dropbox goes down?
06:57 < wctaiwan> probably a long time.
06:58 < wctaiwan> I mean, they can shut down accounts. That's not something torrent trackers can do.
06:59 < Soapy> do they track the name and physical address of their members, so that people could be arrested for uploading pirated software?
06:59 < wctaiwan> probably not, but neither does youtube...
07:00 < Soapy> well most people on youtube have Google accounts, and that requires an email and a phone number
07:00 < Soapy> unless you happened to get in before they added that requirement
07:00 < foks> does it?
07:00 < wctaiwan> Not the latter.
07:00 < foks> It doesn't *require* a phone number
07:00 < wctaiwan> o_O it absolutely requires a phone number now?
07:00 < foks> I don't have a phone and I only got a google account recently
07:00 < wctaiwan> and emai… well, not if you sign up for gmail first
07:00 < Soapy> a new Google/YouTUbe account requires a cell phone number so they can send a text message to confirm your identity
07:01 < wctaiwan> seriously?
07:01 * wctaiwan tries
07:01 < Soapy> lately a lot of sites are doing that
07:01 < foks> I'm sure they can take a second email
07:01 < foks> Not everyone has a mobile phone. As I say, I don't.
07:01 < Soapy> I know
07:01 < foks> I'm waiting on a SIM card.
07:01 < Soapy> I didnt have a cellphone either when I first signed up for gmail
07:01 < Soapy> at least not one with text message capability
07:01 -!- YE [~chatzilla@ip72-193-246-5.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
07:02 < Soapy> and, out of principle, I stll havent given GOogle my phone number, even though Im sure they could figure it out pretty easy since I have an Android phone now and use it all the time
07:02 < wctaiwan> Soapy: just tried
07:02 < wctaiwan> nope, doesn't require a cell number
07:02 < wctaiwan> the field is there but it isn't mandatory
07:02 < Soapy> maybe it's a US thing
07:03 < wctaiwan> maybe.
07:03 < Soapy> or they've rescinded the requirement
07:03 < Soapy> it was definitely real a couple of years ago
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07:03 < wctaiwan> better, if they did.
07:03 < Qcoder02> Right
07:03 < Soapy> you can find discussions of people complaining about it
07:03 < Soapy> so Im not just making this up
07:03 < Qcoder02> Afternoon people
07:03 < wctaiwan> I really should switch away from gmail.
07:03 < Qcoder02> Should I start de-linking you-tube?
07:03 < Soapy> because I know I have a reputation of being wrong
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07:03 < Qcoder02> And other Google sites?
07:03 < wctaiwan> Soapy: I do know that they started pestering people every time they log in, ostensibly for two-factor authentication.
07:03 < wctaiwan> maybe you're talking about that?
07:03 < Soapy> no, it was a hard requirement
07:03 < foks> I'm trying to move away from Hotmail.
07:03 < wctaiwan> eh, okay.
07:04 < wctaiwan> foks: LOL
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07:04 < foks> 'Cos Hotmail sucks.
07:04 < foks> :3
07:04 < wctaiwan> yes, yes you should >.>
07:04 < foks> These are really really old emails.
07:04 < Soapy> no getting past it. And they specifically wanted to confirm your identity with a text message before they'd let you in
07:04 < wctaiwan> I don't like how much control google has over my digital life, though.
07:05 < Soapy> anyway, I think the solution to getting rid of software piracy on shared sites like Dropbox is to require a name and physical address, and some way to confirm it
07:05 < wctaiwan> ugh crap. I just signed up to test, and now I can't remember what password I typed in XD
07:05 < Soapy> that way anyone who'd upload pirated software would be a fool
07:05 < Qcoder02> Soapy : You think peopel would use thier own address? XD
07:05 < wctaiwan> I would never use a nonessential site that requires that.
07:06 < Soapy> there's ways to make sure people arent using fake addresses
07:06 < Soapy> e.g. if you use your real name but someone else's adress when you sign up for a new cellphone contract, you get an error message saying your identity could not be confirmed
07:06 < wctaiwan> would you seriously want a situation like that?
07:07 < wctaiwan> Software piracy, to me, is a much smaller problem than all the privacy intrusions going on.
07:07 < Soapy> no, I wouldnt like it either, but if the alternative is not having file-sharing sites at all, it's worth it
07:07 < wctaiwan> there's always paid FTP.
07:08 < Qcoder02> Soapy: There are ways to get back at software piracy too
07:09 < Mdann52> Any admins online in here?
07:09 * wctaiwan catches foks with a pokeball
07:09 * wctaiwan hands the pokeball to Mdann52
07:09 < wctaiwan> there you go
07:09 < foks> Noooo!
07:10 < closedmouth> his health wasn't low enough
07:10 * Mdann52 puts pokeball in the bin
07:10 < foks> Argh! It seemed to be caught!
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07:19 < Soapy> yay my cellphone battery indicator just turned green
07:19 < Soapy> best free phone ever
07:21 * Soapy is singing along to Greek music he doesnt even understand
07:21 < Soapy> the only words i can pick out are the few English ones interspersed
07:22 < Soapy> too bad i cant search for more online
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07:25 * Mdann52 randomly waves at everyone
07:26 < Soapy> hi
07:26 < Soapy> you asked for admin earlier
07:27 < Soapy> is it this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Abdolreza_Razmjoo&action=history ?
07:28 < Mdann52> No - I've gimme
07:28 -!- Roadgeek_Adam is now known as Mitchazenia
07:29 < Mdann52> Elsewhere
07:29 < Mdann52> For help now
07:29 -!- ChrisGualtieri [47eae49b@wikipedia/ChrisGualtieri] has joined #wikipedia-en
07:30 < Soapy> ok
07:32 -!- lukas|afk is now known as lukas23
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07:39 < Fluffernutter> quiet today...
07:40 < Mdann52> Yep
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07:43 < Soapy> hi tito
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07:46 < Fasttimes68> ill make some noise
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07:55 < jc33> Apparently, someone reading [[Prveril Castle]] was looking for porn. Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Peveril_Castle#227807
07:55 -!- EDI [~Shiibot@WoWUIDev/Nospam] has joined #wikipedia-en
07:56 < Mdann52> :)
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08:02 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o+b Fluffernutter *!*@the.sharktech.org] by Fluffernutter
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08:16 -!- YE is now known as YE|Basketball
08:17 < YE|Basketball> is it me or is WP down?
08:17 < Shearonink> it seems very. s l o w
08:17 < Fluffernutter> working for me
08:18 < Shirik> #wikimedia-tech just exploded
08:18 < Shirik> so I'm going to assume something's wrong
08:18 < YE|Basketball> I get:
08:18 < YE|Basketball> Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes.
08:18 < YE|Basketball> You may be able to get further information in the #wikipedia channel on the Freenode IRC network.
08:18 < YE|Basketball> The Wikimedia Foundation is a non-profit organisation which hosts some of the most popular sites on the Internet, including Wikipedia. It has a constant need to purchase new hardware. If you would like to help, please donate.
08:18 < jc33> eh-heh.
08:18 < jc33> secure ok
08:18 < jc33> check dns
08:18 < Soapy> someone /topic the room please
08:18 < Shearonink> maybe it's a new way to raise funds...
08:19 < Soapy> lol
08:19 < Soapy> "$50 NOW or you dont get to browse wikipedia today"
08:19 < foks> Wikipedia is fine for me.
08:19 < RD> Thank God.
08:19 * Fluffernutter hugs foks
08:19 < RD> :)
08:19 * foks bows.
08:19 < foks> OTRS is fun.
08:19 < jc33> utrs
08:19 < RD> foks: No it isn't :P
08:19 < YE|Basketball> see ya later
08:20 < foks> What are you talking about? OTRS is the best.
08:20 < foks> The BEST.
08:20 < Fluffernutter> OTRS puts me to sleep *snore*
08:20 < Shirik> you are not allowed to sleep
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08:20 < jc33> my cat broke my mouse this morning
08:21 < jc33> so I biked to staples and bought a new one... :/
08:21 < Soapy> cats are known for being dangerous to mice
08:21 < jc33> no, not that type of mouse.
08:21 < RD> HAHAHAHA
08:21 < Soapy> i know : )
08:21 < RD> oh
08:21 < RD> :P
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08:26 < Nina> This channel publicly logged?
08:26 < Fluffernutter> no
08:26 < RD> Why do you ask, Nina?
08:26 * Isarra hits wikipedia with a frying pan.
08:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o DeltaQuad] by ChanServ
08:27 -!- DeltaQuad changed the topic of #wikipedia-en to: English Wikipedia | Status: Having issues | Channel guidelines: http://bit.ly/WP-IRC | Need a chanop? Ask here or in #wikimedia-ops | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request>; for revdel, /join #wikipedia-en-revdel | No public logging | Cloak requests: http://bit.ly/IRCcloaks
08:27 < Nina> I hate public loggers.
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08:29 < BobTheWikipedian> and unemployment is still on the rise. :P
08:29 < jc33> there's a lumber warehouse near where I live
08:30 -!- jc33 is now known as jc37
08:31 < BobTheWikipedian> an international refrigerator factory just announced they are consolidating their global headquarters from this city where they've already shut down the plant into an existing plant elsewhere
08:32 < Isarra> If we start using phalanx, would we still need abusefilter?
08:32 < Isarra> ...and why did I just ask that here?
08:32 < BobTheWikipedian> i have no idea
08:33 < Shirik> And it seems to meeeee, unemployment inside of theeeee, is on the riiiiiiiiise
08:33 < BobTheWikipedian> inside of thee?
08:33 < Shirik> it had to rhyme with me
08:33 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
08:33 < Shirik> it's the only thing I could think of
08:33 < Shirik> also please say you know what that is from
08:34 < BobTheWikipedian> don't go out tonight, it's bound to take your life. heeeey unemployment's on the rise.
08:34 < Shirik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypp1y9zfAv8
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08:35 < GhettoSpaghetti> Hey guys.
08:35 < GhettoSpaghetti> What's up with Wikipedia being down?
08:35 < Shirik> it's not up
08:36 < jc37> it's up.
08:36 < Work> It's not down down, but very very slow. Ops is working on it
08:36 < Isarra> It's just slow for me.
08:36 < jc37> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
08:36 < Wiki13> very slow, not down
08:36 < jc37> not slow at all here
08:36 < Shirik> jc37: not everything is having trouble
08:36 < Shirik> so you're getting lucky
08:36 < BobTheWikipedian> google has a game on the search page
08:36 < Isarra> Although I was greeted with an error screen when I first tried loading it.
08:37 < Shirik> :(
08:37 < BobTheWikipedian> hmmm best i can get is 48 s
08:38 < Shirik> this is not a game I can play at work without anyone noticing
08:38 < Shirik> wtf
08:38 < Shirik> I got 17.1s on my first try
08:38 < BobTheWikipedian> ?
08:38 < haggis> why the hell don't we make USD and CAD
08:38 < BobTheWikipedian> i knock down all the hurdles every time :(
08:38 < haggis> the same price
08:38 < Shearonink> best I got has been 12.6 or 12.3 I think
08:38 < foks> I got 12.6
08:38 < foks> then gave up
08:38 < foks> :)
08:38 < jc37> I got 11.9
08:38 < foks> well fuuuuck you
08:39 < foks> <333
08:39 < Shearonink> it's fun to deliberately screw up the race
08:39 < BobTheWikipedian> oh i figured it out
08:39 < BobTheWikipedian> got 26.3
08:39 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-174-111-088-120.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:39 < Shearonink> the guy doesn't jump up and down
08:39 -!- Aetitiae [~Aetitiae@unaffiliated/aetitiae] has joined #wikipedia-en
08:39 < Shearonink> he hangs his head in sadness :)
08:39 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
08:39 < foks> I got 12.5
08:39 < GhettoSpaghetti> So
08:39 < foks> so yay.
08:39 < GhettoSpaghetti> did anyone hang their socks on the monkey parade?
08:40 < BobTheWikipedian> ?
08:40 < jc37> Yes, on the C on the subway.
08:40 < jc37> the cars were *very* dirty.
08:40 < wctaiwan> jc37: did you get 3 medals for the 11.9?
08:41 < Shearonink> i've nly gotten 2 medals
08:41 < wctaiwan> same.
08:41 < jc37> the Q is nice
08:41 < jc37> I also like the 1
08:42 < jc37> The R160s are quieter than the rest, though the Q service is infrequent to local - it took me 1 hr 40 min
08:42 < wctaiwan> 15.0.
08:42 < BobTheWikipedian> 5 s
08:42 < jc37> also, 140 st.
08:43 < jc37> the SAS is slow, and I wish Adam would hurry up.
08:43 < Mitchazenia> ?
08:43 -!- Jpyamamoto09 [bdbd31dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.189.49.221] has joined #wikipedia-en
08:43 < jc37> the 160 8's are nice, though a consist of 10 would be appreciated.
08:43 < Mitchazenia> The Q did get the rating of the best line again this year
08:44 -!- Mdann5two [~androirc@host-2-98-160-224.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:44 < Mitchazenia> TOok only 11 years
08:44 < jc37> yeah
08:44 < jc37> but service is sooo infrequent
08:44 < jc37> it sucks
08:44 < foks> What are you talking about
08:44 < jc37> imo
08:44 < foks> :P
08:44 < wctaiwan> Taipei Metro pwns you all anyway >.>
08:44 < jc37> I love the Taipei MRT
08:44 < Qcoder02> foks subway systems
08:44 < wctaiwan> cheap, clean, and clean restrooms!
08:44 < jc37> the Xinzhuang line :D
08:44 < foks> oh
08:44 < wctaiwan> wait, when were you last here?
08:44 < jc37> But Sanchong is the middle-of-nowhere
08:44 < Mitchazenia> To say the least the C will only get ups when the R179s come out
08:44 < Qcoder02> wctaiwan: The Taipei Metro has restrooms?
08:44 < foks> ain't no subway in Aberdeen
08:44 < jc37> yes it DOES :D
08:44 < Qcoder02> That's better than the tube :)
08:44 < wctaiwan> Qcoder02: yes, outside the paid area, too.
08:45 < Jpyamamoto09> : ^ }
08:45 < jc37> Taipei is excellent, superb.
08:45 < wctaiwan> jc37: when did you last visit?
08:45 < jc37> June
08:45 < Qcoder02> I don't recall London Tubde stations having loos
08:45 < jc37> through July
08:45 < wctaiwan> Oh, huh, dang.
08:45 < wctaiwan> You could have told me :)
08:45 < jc37> heh :p
08:45 < jc37> it was terribly hot :(
08:45 < wctaiwan> it still is :p
08:45 -!- Sidewinder1 [~de@unaffiliated/sidewinder1] has left #wikipedia-en ["Leaving"]
08:45 < jc37> I know :p
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08:46 < jc37> Do you know where the construction site for Beimen station is? (unless you aren't a rail-geek)
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08:46 < wctaiwan> er, wha? Dongmen's the one that's opening soon. I don't know any Beimen stations..
08:46 * wctaiwan checks
08:46 < jc37> Beimen on the Songshan Line - under construction
08:47 < jc37> Dongmen, yeah, but since the Xinyi and Zhonghe will be to-and-two above and below each other, you'd have to go up an escalator or two
08:47 < wctaiwan> eeeh, commons just went down for me.
08:47 < jc37> wctaiwan: Beimen doesn't exist yet, it's under construction
08:48 -!- LL2|Android [~LL2@wikipedia/LikeLakers2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:48 < wctaiwan> Oh, songshan line.
08:48 < wctaiwan> yeah sorry, don't know about that. I can guess where it is though, judging from the location of the namesake...
08:48 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
08:48 < jc37> north/parallel to the Nangang/Banqiao line
08:49 < jc37> wctaiwan: how often do you ride the MRT, btw?
08:49 < wctaiwan> daily.
08:49 < wctaiwan> well, twice daily.
08:49 -!- Bradford [b5b6a091@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.182.160.145] has joined #wikipedia-en
08:49 < wctaiwan> Bannan line and Wenhu line.
08:49 < Bradford> Hi
08:49 < wctaiwan> hello.
08:49 < jc37> oh. then you haven't ever ridden the Xinzhuang/Luzhou line? It's really, really, nice.
08:50 < wctaiwan> I have.
08:50 < wctaiwan> It uses newer cars, of course it's nice :p
08:50 < jc37> yeah, on the Tamsui line the older cars are so screechy and noisy sometimes
08:50 < wctaiwan> well it's generally pretty noisy, but yeah.
08:50 < wctaiwan> Wenhu line's great though. It passes right next to Songshan Airport. You can see a plane real close if you're lucky.
08:51 < wctaiwan> the train slows down because it makes a 90º turn right where the airport is, too.
08:51 < jc37> I have a map of the MRt
08:51 < jc37> to geographical proportions
08:52 < jc37> and it looks more like a 300-degree sharp turn
08:52 < wctaiwan> heh, really?
08:52 -!- jubo2 [~jubo2@87-95-57-110.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #wikipedia-en
08:52 < jc37> I'll take a pic and upload to imgur
08:52 < jc37> brb
08:52 -!- GhettoSpaghetti [18fd5a4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.253.90.78] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
08:52 < wctaiwan> I found one online.
08:53 < wctaiwan> yeah, seems like it's sharper than I thought.
08:54 < jc37> mhm
08:54 * Bradford This channel is always on so many people
08:55 < Fasttimes68> its not on me
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09:11 < Nina> I want to talk to a specific user who had a user called zalgo, where is he now?
09:11 -!- yuvipanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/Yuvipandan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:12 < Fluffernutter> and why do you want to speak to him, Nina?
09:12 < Nina> I have a few questions...
09:12 < Qcoder02> Right...
09:12 < Qcoder02> Afternoon people
09:12 < Qcoder02> I'm getting rather annoyed with Google's attitude on certain things
09:13 < Qcoder02> Unless Google get's clue , I'm going to start delinking
09:13 < Qcoder02> Or at the very least link conversion.
09:13 < Fluffernutter> Qcoder02, what are you on about?
09:13 < Nina> Any links?
09:14 -!- iizyrt [~crazilon@75-1-130-249.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:14 < Qcoder02> Fluffernutter: I am planning on converting Google links on Wikipedia into proper citations
09:14 -!- Bradford [b5b6a091@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.182.160.145] has left #wikipedia-en []
09:14 < Nina> oh noes
09:14 < Nina> drama
09:14 < wctaiwan> Nina: not from here, I'm afraid. They're banned here.
09:14 < wctaiwan> try other places.
09:15 < Nina> wctaiwan where?
09:15 < wctaiwan> idk.
09:15 < wctaiwan> but not here.
09:15 < Nina> even wikipedia doesn't know!
09:16 < Qcoder02> Is there anyone here that has access to the Wikipedia URL blacklist?
09:16 < haggis> Qcoder02: wikimedia or wikipedia
09:16 < Qcoder02> Wikipedia
09:16 < Fluffernutter> why would wikipedia know where to find anyone on irc?
09:16 < Qcoder02> English in particualr
09:16 < haggis> Qcoder02: admins
09:17 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-174-111-088-120.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:17 < Qcoder02> I'd like some URL's blacklisted...
09:17 < Qcoder02> namely *.google.com links
09:17 < RD> Mediawiki talk:Spamblacklist
09:18 < RD> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist rather
09:18 < Qcoder02> And more specfically maps.google.com links... becuase those should be coords
09:18 < RD> You can add requests to that page
09:18 < Qcoder02> RD : Thanks
09:18 < RD> Yup
09:18 < TeeTylerToe> oh
09:19 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:20 < Qcoder02> RD: However I would like an opnion
09:20 < Qcoder02> maps.google.com (and regional variants) should be on the URL blacklist as they should be put in as Coords
09:21 < Qcoder02> which GeoHack links to anyway
09:21 * LikeLakers2 tosses a Ultra Ball at Qcoder02
09:21 < Nina> bad idea.
09:21 < Qcoder02> It isn't spam as such
09:21 < Nina> not at all...
09:21 < Nina> I request that you shut the fuck up, Qcoder02.
09:21 < Qcoder02> Nina: Why?
09:21 < Qcoder02> I asked for an opinion
09:21 < Nina> My opinion for you is to shut the fuck up.
09:22 < Qcoder02> Ops?
09:22 < LikeLakers2> Nina: Please be a bit nicer
09:22 < RD> rawr
09:22 < foozo> mmm we got a pottymouth here.
09:22 < LikeLakers2> If you don't want to see his messages, just /ignore him
09:22 < LikeLakers2> (or you could just ask nicely, of course, for him to leave you alone. :) )
09:22 < Nina> If you start converting google links into comments, i promise it will be reverted on sight.
09:23 < Nina> In fact, i have a bot ready for that.
09:23 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
09:23 <@foks> behave please
09:23 < Qcoder02> Nina: Converting Google links into full citations doesn't brak any policy
09:23 -!- foozo [~foozo@72.51.71.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:23 < Nina> fine mr foks.
09:23 -!- Doug_Weller [~Doug_Well@wikipedia/Dougweller] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
09:23 < The_Thing> So, I have all these NASA videos uploaded on my youtube account...
09:23 < LikeLakers2> hello foks
09:23 < LikeLakers2> :D
09:23 <@foks> hi.
09:23 < Qcoder02> Converting map links over to Coord is something I've been advised to do by others in the past
09:23 < The_Thing> I have had 3 seperate news companies file copyright complaints against me... >>>
09:23 < The_Thing> >.> *
09:24 < Nina> the_thing, congratulations
09:24 < Qcoder02> the_Thing: What did you do?
09:24 < The_Thing> Stupid automated systems, lol...
09:24 < Qcoder02> Posted US Gov material?
09:24 < The_Thing> Qcoder02: They're issuing copyright complaints against public domain content
09:24 < Qcoder02> So tell them to sue the US Govt ;)
09:24 -!- M132T003C [~MTC@5ad1e048.bb.sky.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
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09:24 < The_Thing> lol
09:24 < Qcoder02> I'm serious
09:24 < Nina> hey the_thing, since you're a mormon, try posting a video on how magnets works!
09:25 < haggis> http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6809271/the-10-worst-pictures-the-mars-rover-could-send-back
09:25 < Qcoder02> You were using content you had reason to understand was Public Domain US Government content
09:25 -!- JasonDC [~Jason-Fre@ec2-107-20-219-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host]
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09:25 < The_Thing> Well, I've filed counterclaims through youtube... I've had to go through this once before, and they fixed it, so, they should fix it again just fine :p
09:26 < Qcoder02> the_Thing: Perhaps you should also let the EFF know?
09:26 < The_Thing> Eh, I really don't think that will be necessary
09:26 < Qcoder02> That your rights under law to use US Gov material are being challanged by a copyright fraudster ;)
09:26 < Qcoder02> What's the name of the company filing the claim?
09:27 -!- mh0 [mh0@unaffiliated/mh0] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o foks] by foks
09:27 < Shearonink> ^^^This is allvery interesting
09:27 < The_Thing> For the first time a couple years ago, it was foks News
09:27 < foks> The best news.
09:27 < LikeLakers2> lol The_Thing
09:27 < The_Thing> THis time on the same vid, it's Rightster
09:27 < foks> Not to be confused with Fox News. The worst news.
09:28 < LikeLakers2> haha
09:28 < Qcoder02> The Thing: '(Un)Fair and (Mentally) Unbalanced - Fox News ?)
09:28 < The_Thing> And then on the other one it's Hearst Television Inc. and Reuters...
09:28 < Shearonink> really?
09:28 < Qcoder02> Reuters should know better
09:28 -!- Anurag2k12 [~Anurag2k1@bas2-cooksville01-1088750716.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:28 < Shearonink> everyone's mad at you....you must be doing something right
09:28 < The_Thing> Qcoder02: Automated systems and shit, lol
09:28 < foks> Thomson Reuters
09:28 < foks> Probably the "Thompson" half
09:28 -!- DJMalik [b5b6a091@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.182.160.145] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:28 < foks> -p
09:29 < Qcoder02> The_Thing: Perhaps you should compile a name and hame list?
09:29 < Qcoder02> *shame
09:29 < The_Thing> lol
09:29 < LikeLakers2> lol
09:29 -!- DJMalik [b5b6a091@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.182.160.145] has quit [Client Quit]
09:30 < The_Thing> STS-127 Endeavour launch part 1
09:30 < The_Thing> Your video may include the following copyrighted content:
09:30 < The_Thing> Disputed claims
09:30 < The_Thing> Audiovisual content administered by:
09:30 < The_Thing> Hearst Television Inc. Your dispute awaiting response by 09/06/12
09:30 < The_Thing> "Sixth Time's a Charm", visual content administered by:
09:30 < The_Thing> FOX News Network Claim released.
09:30 < The_Thing> "Endeavour blasts off", audiovisual content administered by:
09:30 < The_Thing> Reuters Claim released.
09:30 -!- jc39 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:30 < WilliamH_UK> ffs
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09:30 -!- bca [u6921@wikimedia/Joe-Gazz84] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:30 < jc39> ?
09:31 < The_Thing> Shit, throttling isn't enabled
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09:31 < Qcoder02> Nina: Why did you get so angry earlier?
09:31 < jc39> because they hate public loggers?
09:31 < jc39> didn't they say that?
09:31 < RD> lol
09:31 < Fluffernutter> last i checked Qcoder02 wasn't a public logger
09:32 < RD> That's what he wants us to think.
09:32 < The_Thing> I'm a private logger. :p
09:32 < Qcoder02> I don't log
09:32 < Qcoder02> Even private
09:32 < jc39> HA
09:32 < Qcoder02> I say too many embarssing things
09:32 < jc39> 76.115.141.36 is a Socks5-fowarded proxy
09:32 < Qcoder02> ;)
09:32 < jc39> So Nina is not where they seem to be!
09:32 < RD> lol
09:33 < RD> Busted.
09:33 < The_Thing> I have over 250 MB in logs, lol.
09:33 < jc39> Anyway, Nina, why are you using that proxy?
09:33 < Qcoder02> RD: Whats your view on blacklisting maps.google.com... It's not spam as such...
09:33 < The_Thing> I smell a Derp.
09:33 -!- wctaiwan [~wctaiwan@wikipedia/wctaiwan] has quit []
09:33 < RD> Qcoder02: Probably better suited for the AbuseFilter.
09:33 < The_Thing> Who else would make a mormom joke at my expense like they did earlier?
09:33 < RD> If anything.
09:33 < jc39> 76.115.141.36:7976
09:33 < The_Thing> Mormon*
09:33 < jc39> Nina: 76.115.141.36:7976
09:33 < jc39> 76.115.141.36:7976
09:33 < Qcoder02> Well it's not really 'abuse' in the sense that someone spamming BIgTits cream is
09:33 < jc39> op around?
09:33 < The_Thing> -10:24:46- (Nina) hey the_thing, since you're a mormon, try posting a video on how magnets works!
09:34 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
09:34 -!- Nina [~wrje@c-76-115-141-36.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by foks (Nina)]
09:34 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b-o *!*@c-76-115-141-36.hsd1.or.comcast.net foks] by foks
09:34 < jc39> win :D
09:34 < Qcoder02> foks :)
09:34 < foks> np
09:34 < jc39> busted. that was fun
09:34 < The_Thing> At least Derp can be nice and transparent at times
09:34 < jc39> I hate ipv6
09:34 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
09:35 < Shearonink> me to
09:35 < jc39> I can't geolocate ipv6 addresses :(
09:35 < Shearonink> too even
09:35 < jc39> it pisses me off
09:35 -!- BobTheWikipedian [~BobTheWik@wikipedia/Bob-the-Wikipedian] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [SeaMonkey 2.11/20120715041107]]
09:35 < Shearonink> yeah, will that ever be available?
09:35 * Jasper_Deng loves IPv6
09:35 < jc39> wat
09:35 < Qcoder02> Anyone here got API access?
09:35 < Shearonink> for IPv^ addresses to be geolocated
09:35 < jc39> Jasper, do you know any sites that can geolocate ipv6?
09:35 < Jasper_Deng> just google it
09:35 < Qcoder02> I'd like a list of articles that link to *.google.com
09:35 < Shearonink> it should be available on-wiki
09:36 < Qcoder02> Special:Linksearch doesn't filter by namespace
09:36 < Shearonink> the geolocation of ipv6
09:36 < foks> Qcoder02, isn't google-hosted news on *.google.com
09:36 -!- jc39 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]]
09:36 < Qcoder02> foks: I''m trying to find 'bare' links...
09:36 < Qcoder02> So they can be converted to proper citations
09:36 < The_Thing> "As a result, your account has been penalized and is not in good standing. Deleting the video will remove the penalty due to this claim."
09:37 < The_Thing> Fucking indiscriminate horse penis lickers... Fix your damn systems
09:37 < Qcoder02> So delete it?
09:37 < Qcoder02> It's not as if the Mars Lander conent hasn't been posted elsewhere
09:37 < Jasper_Deng> jc39: bad news - Google finds nothing useful
09:37 < The_Thing> Why, I have no reason to. It's perfectly legitimate content
09:38 < Jasper_Deng> the good news is that adverts can't track your location
09:38 < The_Thing> Qcoder02: This isn't even the mars lander
09:38 < The_Thing> This is STS-127
09:38 < The_Thing> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41qvE-QMm_U&feature=player_embedded
09:38 < Qcoder02> the_thing: Sometimes it's easier to take it down, and then have a go at the people that got it taken down
09:38 < The_Thing> 3 bloody years ago
09:38 -!- ExtinguishedFire [~chatzilla@i161223.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:38 < The_Thing> You would think they'd have this sorted out by now
09:39 < Qcoder02> You would
09:39 < LikeLakers2> wow
09:39 < Qcoder02> but that's YouTube
09:39 < LikeLakers2> Espernet is having problems
09:39 < LikeLakers2> best part is
09:39 < Qcoder02> That can't even remove OBVIOUS copyvio
09:39 < LikeLakers2> XChat is logging all the spam it gets when it recieves data
09:39 < The_Thing> And see, this is the problem with things like SOPA and PIPA and all that other shit they're trying so desperately to push through
09:39 < The_Thing> It's trying to hit a fly with a sledgehammer
09:40 < Qcoder02> The_Thing: If they say it isn't PD material... don't argue...
09:40 < Qcoder02> Take it down
09:40 < Qcoder02> and then have the argument
09:40 < Qcoder02> ;)
09:40 < The_Thing> If they say it isn't PD material, then they are committing perjury
09:40 -!- ty [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:40 < Qcoder02> So you take it down based on thier claim
09:40 < Qcoder02> which furthers you argument if you find out it's NASA originated ;)
09:41 < The_Thing> I recorded it straight off of NASA TV myself
09:41 < Qcoder02> So you told them that?
09:41 * Isarra pokes jorm with a mediawiki skin.
09:41 < The_Thing> I told them that it was a work of the U.S. Goverment, which by law is ineligible for copyright protection under Section 105 of the Copyright act
09:42 < Qcoder02> And your account still got penalised?
09:42 < The_Thing> Oh, I just posted teh counterclaim like half an hour ago
09:42 < The_Thing> My account was penalized before that
09:43 < Qcoder02> You should ask YouTube why they are flagging PD material as copyright... ;)
09:43 < The_Thing> Since the same video has had 3 seperate claims against it, I'm presuming
09:43 < BlastHardcheese> uh, perjury only applies to sworn statements given to a justice of the peace, judge, etc.
09:43 < Qcoder02> 3 claims from diffent companies?
09:43 < Qcoder02> Also isn't it an offence under USC to assert you have copyright when you don't?
09:43 < The_Thing> Yes, Fucks News, Reuters, and some Hearst Television Inc.
09:44 < The_Thing> Looks like the Reuter's claim was just cleared though
09:44 < Qcoder02> 3 Claims from differnt companies for the same footage , should tip someone off that something is wrong :)
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09:44 < Qcoder02> You can't have 3 companies owning the same footage ;)
09:44 < Shearonink> This sounds like something that should be piblicized
09:44 < The_Thing> And the Fucks News one is from 3 years ago shortly after I uploaded it, I dealt with that claim 3 years ago and got it cleared
09:44 < Shearonink> publicized, power to the people etc
09:45 < The_Thing> Something like this already has: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120806/11053019945/curiositys-mars-landing-video-disappears-youtube-due-to-bogus-copyright-claim.shtml
09:45 < The_Thing> A news company took down NASA's own video from their own channel
09:46 < BlastHardcheese> Qcoder02: uh sure you can. Copyright can be jointly held.
09:46 < BlastHardcheese> Just like title to physical property.
09:47 < The_Thing> BlastHardcheese: Cept in this case, they're trying to claim copyright on public domain material.
09:47 < The_Thing> All 3 of them
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09:48 < The_Thing> We can all thank the DMCA for this... Youtube's pretty much obligated to take action when they get a claim
09:48 < BlastHardcheese> The_Thing: Okay, I never disputed that.
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09:50 < Qcoder02> the_Thing: Perhaps you should get a statement from NASA confirming your right to use the footage?
09:50 < Qcoder02> Tiresome I know , but it will make it easier to say YouTube got it wrong
09:51 < Qcoder02> When I've wanted to re-use PD stuff, I've tended to ask the archive source concerned for attribution reasons...
09:51 < The_Thing> For a video with less than 400 viewers? Why bother?
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09:52 < Qcoder02> OK OK
09:53 < Qcoder02> You don't mind me making jokes about Fox and Hearst being part of a Martian Conspiracy then ? XD
09:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> The_Thing actually
09:53 < haggis> The_Thing: www.collegehumor.com/video/6806337/michael-phelps-mom-mistakenly-thinks-her-son-won
09:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> these are automated
09:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its not people making the claims probably
09:53 < The_Thing> We know that
09:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> all three have aired the exact footage so thats why your stream was detected
09:54 < ToAruShiroiNeko> you could sue them for it probably
09:54 < Shearonink> Some*one* coded the automation though, so people are making the claims...
09:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> It is maachine learning so people arent really involved
09:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its not really "automation" when AI is involved
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09:59 < Soapy> i heard that Michael Phelps has won the most gold medals of any Olympic athlete ever
09:59 < Fasttimes68> u heard correct
10:00 < Fluffernutter> i heard u liek mudkipz
10:00 < Fasttimes68> whats that
10:01 < Isarra> Is this really the itunes logo, or just its icon? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ITunes_Logo.png
10:01 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:01 < Isarra> Or with apps, are the things one and the same these days?
10:01 < Tony_Sidaway> A second US mass shooting. Another nutter with a gun.
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10:03 < Tony_Sidaway> ToAruShiroiNeko: interesting distinction. I would have classified ML as a field of automation, myself, not sure what my son would say (it's his specialism).
10:03 < Shearonink> wut Tony_Sidaway ?
10:03 < Soapy> http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0807/Wisconsin-shooting-how-racist-bands-recruit-for-white-supremacists-video
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10:04 < TeeTylerToe> machine learning versus artificial intelligence
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10:09 < Tony_Sidaway> ML is normally regarded as a field of AI.
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10:10 < Tony_Sidaway> But I was addressing ToAruShiroiNeko who has said that 'it's not really "automation"' where AI is involved. I take the point, but it really is part of the larger field of automation.
10:12 < Fasttimes68> I hope we don't get machines that fart
10:13 < Fluffernutter> pretty syre there are iphone apps that fart
10:13 < Fasttimes68> with smell
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10:29 < haggis> https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/6/Uvr2Ld6TL0OLvjKgz6HhGw2.png
10:30 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has quit [Quit: jorm]
10:33 < mysterytrey> Wait, since when did children know what inept means?
10:33 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
10:33 < RD> Since Wikipedia made them smart.
10:34 < mysterytrey> Waahoo!
10:34 < foks> smrt
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10:37 < Tony_Sidaway> Someone went back and analysed the effect of continental temperature caused by the September 2001 private aviation ban. It was significant.
10:37 -!- Maccer [~Maccer@199.168.138.175] has quit [Excess Flood]
10:37 < Tony_Sidaway> I wonder if someone will go back and analyze Twitter content during the recent Wikipedia outage...
10:38 < Tony_Sidaway> The effect on reading age of tweets may provide a suitable proxy.
10:38 -!- Soapy [~Soap@wikipedia/soap] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:39 < Wehwalt> Nonsense, it's the increase in vocab caused by Words With Friends. Now everyone knows "aa".
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10:40 < Tony_Sidaway> Interesting study, by the way. The question was whether clouds raise or lower temperatures on aggregate. Aviation contrails are very large thin clouds.
10:41 < Tony_Sidaway> The government has imposed a brief civil aviation ban in the wake of the atrocities of September 11th, 2001.
10:41 < Tony_Sidaway> s/has/had/
10:41 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #wikipedia-en to: English Wikipedia | Status: Up (http://status.wikimedia.org/) | Channel guidelines: http://bit.ly/WP-IRC | Need a chanop? Ask here or in #wikimedia-ops | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request>; for revdel, /join #wikipedia-en-revdel | No public logging | Cloak requests: http://bit.ly/IRCcloaks
10:42 < Wehwalt> I recall
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10:48 < SoapX> eh
10:48 < SoapX> I know Im stubborn, but Im not convinced that just putting planes on the ground affected the temperature of the world
10:49 < SoapX> you would have to have a *lot* of planes to make any difference
10:49 -!- Anna_Frodesiak [Anna_Frode@wikipedia/Anna-Frodesiak] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:49 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: nor am I. The study did purport to show a significant net change, however.
10:49 < Anna_Frodesiak> a new one for me: a user wants this deleted
10:49 < Anna_Frodesiak> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/International_Relations,_Boston_University
10:49 < Tony_Sidaway> It was, for a brief period, every civil airliner in America.
10:49 < Anna_Frodesiak> primary, but not sole contributor
10:49 < Anna_Frodesiak> advice?
10:50 < SoapX> america's only 6% of the world's surface
10:50 < Tony_Sidaway> And the temperature changed was the continental land temperature.
10:50 < Tony_Sidaway> Not the global temperature.
10:50 < Anna_Frodesiak> anyone?
10:50 < Tony_Sidaway> Just American mainland.
10:50 < Anna_Frodesiak> i'm over in help channel and someone's waiting for a reply
10:50 < Anna_Frodesiak> can she {{author}} it
10:50 < Anna_Frodesiak> ?
10:51 < MartijnH> let me check
10:51 < Tony_Sidaway> Anna_Frodesiak: use normal deletion processes.
10:51 < MartijnH> why wouldn't she?
10:51 -!- joedecker [~joedecker@wikipedia/Joe-Decker] has quit [Quit: joedecker]
10:51 < SoapX> is there a link to that study online?
10:51 < Anna_Frodesiak> i mean
10:51 < Anna_Frodesiak> {{db-author}}
10:51 < MartijnH> ah, not sole
10:51 < MartijnH> who are the other contributors?
10:51 < Anna_Frodesiak> ips mainly
10:51 < Anna_Frodesiak> i know she's not sole so that's why im asking
10:51 < MartijnH> ah
10:51 < Anna_Frodesiak> what becomes of stale afcs?
10:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Anna_Frodesiak: if only format changes and not significant content, even so I'd be inclined to go via PROD.
10:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Just to be sure.
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10:52 < MartijnH> and the IP's are not her?
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> prod fine
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> not sure about the ips
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> but prod is a good plan
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> do stale afcs eventually get deleted?
10:52 < MartijnH> who knows
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> hahaha
10:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Anna_Frodesiak: presumably not an urgent reason for deletion.
10:52 < MartijnH> (or cares)
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> ok thanks
10:52 < Anna_Frodesiak> prod it is
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10:53 < Tony_Sidaway> Great! This channel is still useful for advice sometimes!
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10:55 < Anna_Frodesiak> thanks bunnies
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10:56 < Tony_Sidaway> Brief mention of temperature changes attributed to the aviation ban here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-articles/read.main?id=85
10:57 < Tony_Sidaway> But I believe there was a formal study of this, and that's what I was referring to.
10:57 < SoapX> ok
10:58 < SoapX> "Worldwide, contrails are estimated to cover .1% of the Earth’s surface area and that number is forecast to rise to .5% by 20502."
10:58 < SoapX> 20502, eh?
10:58 < SoapX> I guess we're safe for another 18,500 years
10:58 < TeeTylerToe> anyone who has experience in cloud computing is in high demand >.<
10:58 < SoapX> thats probably a copypaste from somewhere that said 2050 with a superscript 2 indicating a footnote
10:59 < SoapX> yeah, definitely
10:59 < Tony_Sidaway> This guy Andrew Carleton of Penn State, who is quoted in the article, seems to be the expert on this: http://www.geog.psu.edu/people/carleton-andrew
10:59 < Wehwalt> Yup, those Penn State climate scientists
11:00 < Tony_Sidaway> Well the only other one I know is the renowned Michael Mann.
11:00 < Tony_Sidaway> But he's a paleo guy. This chap is a physical geographer.
11:01 < TeeTylerToe> so the increase in contrail coverage is predicted to go down by a factor of 100,000?
11:02 < TeeTylerToe> ah
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11:07 < SoapX> I think 28bytes will be a good 'crat
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11:09 < WilliamH_UK> i think so too
11:09 < WilliamH_UK> didn't he run for CU?
11:09 < Tony_Sidaway_> Our bureaucrats are, in my opinion, afflicted with institutional timidity. We need some leadership in there to handle the RFA problem.
11:09 < SoapX> not that I know of
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11:10 < WilliamH_UK> Tony_Sidaway that is kind of a contradiction of the crat role
11:11 < Tony_Sidaway_> Bureaucrats have vast discretion. But they never use it.
11:12 < WilliamH_UK> ah yes, so he did (run for CU)
11:12 < WilliamH_UK> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/CheckUser_and_Oversight/2011_CUOS_appointments
11:12 < WilliamH_UK> so did I, in that call
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11:16 < TeeTylerToe> what evidence is there of an admin crisis, particularly with the decline in editors?
11:17 < Tony_Sidaway_> The trouble is that we're so used to timid, conservative, vote-counting bureaucrats, that we actually think that is what a bureaucrat _is_ on Wikipedia.
11:18 < Tony_Sidaway_> Their existence as such is what keeps RFA such a nasty cockpit.
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11:21 < WilliamH_UK> I would disagree with that completely
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11:21 < WilliamH_UK> I would say it's the "welcoming committee", for want of a better phrase, whic hmakes RFA such an unpleasant place
11:21 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:21 < BarkingFish> Evening guys - first of all, don't ask. Secondly, don't ask, and thirdly, just please, please, don't ask. OK? :/
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11:22 < Tony_Sidaway_> Of course you would. It's the de facto status quo, so most people think that's policy.
11:22 < Peter-C> BarkingFish - GERMANY! :D
11:22 < BarkingFish> See above, Peter-C - read it, digest it, and remember it.
11:22 < BarkingFish> K?
11:22 < Peter-C> D:
11:23 < TeeTylerToe> fish bark?
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11:25 < Pharos> I have just one question
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11:25 < Fluffernutter> wtf who turned back on the watchlist bolding shit
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11:25 < Pharos> it was peter-c
11:26 * Peter-C hides
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11:28 < Shearonink> WilliamH_UK: I would say that it is that gauntlet of unpleasantness that gives RfA its own special atmosphere
11:29 -!- TB|Away is now known as TBloemink
11:29 < Shearonink> oh, the questions we get in -help...
11:30 < Shearonink> "if a muslim man dies and his body is not found what do we have to do"
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11:32 < BarkingFish> Question. Does the ambox at the top of my userpage breach any rules about libel or defamation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BarkingFish
11:32 < Tony_Sidaway> WilliamH_UK: the "welcoming committee" is empowered by the supine acquiescence of the bureaucrats.
11:32 < SoapX> lol @ ambox
11:32 < SoapX> hey, that reminds me
11:32 < Fluffernutter> BarkingFish: no, but it's spectacularly pointless
11:32 < WilliamH_UK> right, and who makes the gauntless of unpleasantness? the bureaucrats?
11:32 < SoapX> we were right!! we all predicted you'd be back on IRC sooner than one week
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11:33 < SoapX> welcome back !
11:33 * SoapX hugs BarkingFish
11:33 < seiyuuEva> thnx
11:33 < WilliamH_UK> hi BarkingFish
11:33 < WilliamH_UK> you are in germany?
11:33 < BarkingFish> Wait what? you were taking bets on my being back?
11:33 * Fluffernutter maintains that 'crats should be allowed to enforce decorum on RFA
11:33 < SoapX> not really bets, no, because we all agreed youd be back soon
11:33 < Fluffernutter> possibly with whips
11:34 < Tony_Sidaway> WilliamH_UK: they don't make it, but they permit it. Those pages can be controlled completely by the bureaucrats. They can set standards and exclude those who won't behave. And they could interpret discussions using their common sense, and not just count votes.
11:34 < BarkingFish> Yeah, well it's nothing serious, just BA being a bunch of assholes. My flight on monday got delayed. I got moved to fly this morning. Got there and discovered BA hadn't transferred my ******* ticket and wanted to charge me another £349 for the privilege, SoapX
11:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Fluffernutter: they are already empowered to do so.
11:35 < BarkingFish> at which point I told them precisely what to do with their £349 charge, and got removed by security
11:35 < Qcoder02> BarkingFIsh: So you are flying out on a different carrier?
11:35 < Fluffernutter> Tony_Sidaway: they say that a) they're not and b) even if they were, they wouldn't do it
11:35 < WilliamH_UK> Tony_Sidaway again, not true, they don't do any of those things because if we do, we know that we will be considered exercising draconian control over it
11:35 < SoapX> lol
11:35 < SoapX> sorry though
11:36 < Tony_Sidaway> Fluffernutter: exactly. Supine.
11:36 < SoapX> I assumed you were already in Germany and just couldnt wait to get back on IRC
11:36 < Shearonink> removed by security?
11:36 < SoapX> £349 is a lot
11:36 < WilliamH_UK> when someone makes a fallacious !vote at RFA, look at the comments along the lines of "this obviously won't be taken into account", and more to the point, look how many of them are made by noncrats
11:36 < Shearonink> yeah
11:36 < Tony_Sidaway> WilliamH_UK: and draconian control of a process page is a bad thing since _when_?
11:36 < WilliamH_UK> Tony_Sidaway fair point
11:37 < WilliamH_UK> surely depends on a case by case basis though
11:37 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Fly out on another carrier... and bill BA for the additional cost I would have said
11:37 * SoapX hugs BarkingFish some more even though it wont get him to Germany any faster
11:37 < WilliamH_UK> BarkingFish how on earth did they try to do that?
11:37 < BarkingFish> Eventually yes, Qcoder02 - the problem I have is that the next available flight I can get out is gonna be over 2 weeks away. Shitloads of people heading to germany.
11:37 < SoapX> airlines are power mad
11:37 -!- James_F [~jdforrest@wikimedia/JamesF] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:37 * Peter-C licks James_F’s face
11:37 * Peter-C runs away
11:37 < seiyuuEva> any knows los angeles channel?
11:37 < Tony_Sidaway> When you've got a kangaroo court ruling the roost on a process for over half a decade, I humbly submit that it's time for some draconian control.
11:37 < BarkingFish> WilliamH_UK, apparently, it was "my" responsibility to ensure my ticket had been transferred
11:37 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: At least you didn't make a threat to nuke the airpot ;)
11:37 < SoapX> i thought all the worst of it were the US airlines
11:38 < James_F> Peter-C: Hello to you too.
11:38 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, no, thankfully, I didn't.
11:38 < WilliamH_UK> how on earth can that be
11:38 < WilliamH_UK> surely it's their responsibility *to actually do it*, not you to check whether or not they have
11:38 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Any response from Google?
11:38 < WilliamH_UK> BarkingFish are you on twitter?
11:38 < WilliamH_UK> send a few public tweets to them about it
11:38 < BarkingFish> I was supposed to check that all my arrangements are correct prior to flying - the woman on BA's desk told me "It's not our job to ensure your travel arrangements are correct. That's for you to do."
11:38 < seiyuuEva> ?
11:39 < WilliamH_UK> they won't want that floating around
11:39 < Tony_Sidaway> Everybody should fly Lufthansa. It's raally lovely.
11:40 -!- diegogrez [~Diego@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:40 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: At least they aren't EasyJet
11:40 -!- diegogrez [~Diego@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:40 < BarkingFish> Anyway, Qcoder02 - I am going with a different carrier. Won't cost me as much to fly anyway. Funnily enough, it's easyjet
11:40 < haggis> BarkingFish: :/
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11:40 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Well Are you able to claim a refund out of BA?
11:40 < WilliamH_UK> Qcoder02 having done *eleven* return flights to Munich with easyJet, I would recommend them unreservedly
11:41 < BarkingFish> I can go one way London Gatwick to Munich for £51.99 exclusing taxes
11:41 < Shearonink> It seems to me that RfA is the only place on Wikipedia where all comers can behave like schoolyard bullies if they want, almost the only place where editors can post *directly* about other editors' behavior rather than edits.
11:41 < Tony_Sidaway> Dunno why I'm recommending and airline, come to think of it. Stay at home and get a Skype account.
11:41 * Shearonink hearts Skype
11:41 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Did the attitutde of the BA staff aggrevate your medical condition?
11:41 < TeeTylerToe> I wouldn't say that Shearonink
11:41 < BarkingFish> first flight with seats on is Mon. 27th August
11:41 < Shearonink> I would
11:41 < Shearonink> ouch Fish
11:41 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, no - but their attitude came very close to aggravating their conditions, I can tell you.
11:42 < Shearonink> I'm fond of VirginAmerica, I'd fly it all the time if I could
11:42 < BarkingFish> I was about 5 mins away from punching the woman on the service desk, when security turned up and removed me.
11:42 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: The thing is not to loose it
11:42 < Shearonink> did you make the nightly news Fish?
11:42 < Tony_Sidaway> Shearonink: that's not really true. There are talk pages, user conduct RFCs and arbitration edit pages.
11:43 < TeeTylerToe> on rfa can admins ask editors question and then block them for answering them?
11:43 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Hopefully you aren't now on the No Fly list as potentialy unstable person
11:43 < Shearonink> "almost the only place" is my point
11:43 < BarkingFish> Shearonink, I don't know. There were some guys filming in the terminal, so I may be on the next series of Airline. Who knows.
11:43 < Tony_Sidaway> But posting about conduct is appropriate to RFA. Acting like a bully isn't.
11:43 < Qcoder02> Shame getting the Ferry to Denmark is no longer an option
11:43 -!- seiyuuEva is now known as Actress1989
11:43 < RD> dramaz
11:43 < BarkingFish> if i was listed as no fly, I would have been told
11:43 < Shearonink> Poor Fish
11:44 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh and I forgot about that ongoing bear-baiting match, WP:ANI.
11:44 < Shearonink> fun times Tony
11:44 < Tony_Sidaway> The creator of ANI says it's the worst thing he ever did.
11:44 < BarkingFish> what's wrong with ani? 2 nights back it was tidier than a womble's garden, Tony_Sidaway
11:44 < Qcoder02> WP:ANI Advanced nominal Idoiots?
11:44 * Shearonink likes how Jimbo's talkpage is a de-facto Village Pump for all sorts of issues
11:45 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: 'Underground, Overground. Wombling Free?'
11:45 < TeeTylerToe> a lot of people with a very poor understanding of the wikipedia's definition of consensus throw consensus around like a billy club
11:45 < Tony_Sidaway> BarkingFish: must be some other ANI you're talking about.
11:45 -!- Nascar1996 is now known as N96
11:45 < Actress1989> Hi
11:45 -!- Cavalry [~Chase@82.110.240.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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11:45 < BarkingFish> Tony_Sidaway, nope - there was nothing on the board, everything was closed - no active discussions whatsoever
11:45 < Qcoder02> barkingFish... " The ticket machine Jammed up on me !'
11:45 < Qcoder02> "
11:46 < Qcoder02> Sorry I'm in a mood that needs me to make jokes
11:46 < Tony_Sidaway> BarkingFish: really? Must take a look!
11:46 -!- Patar_knight [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Patar-knight] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
11:46 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh hang on was that during the outage? :)
11:46 < Qcoder02> Outage?
11:46 < BarkingFish> That was 2 nights ago, Tony, people were discussing in here and I said - don't jinx it. I assume someone jinxed it.
11:46 < Qcoder02> Oh you mean the Martian construction workers? XD
11:46 < Shearonink> BarkingFish: At one point did you ask them, "if I';m supposed to do your job for you then what the heck am I paying your airline all this money for?"
11:46 < TeeTylerToe> hey I only jinxed federer
11:47 -!- N96 is now known as Nas
11:47 < BarkingFish> Shearonink, no - because at one point, it actually made sense briefly.
11:47 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Do you swear in English?
11:47 -!- Nas is now known as Nascar1996
11:47 < Qcoder02> or in Icelandic?>
11:47 < BarkingFish> It *is* my responsibility to see that everything I have is arranged properly.
11:47 -!- loyo [~yarhn@pool-98-117-201-93.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:47 < TeeTylerToe> you didn't arrange the new flight
11:47 < TeeTylerToe> they did
11:47 < TBloemink> They should
11:47 < Fasttimes68> isnt icelandic a difficult as fuck language to learn?
11:48 < loyo> Wikipedia down?
11:48 < Qcoder02> It's not Finiish
11:48 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, whatever comes to my tongue first. English, German, whichever.
11:48 < TBloemink> When my flight from Dusseldorf to London got cancelled in December 2010 they arranged the other flight too the next day
11:48 < TBloemink> Not that that one did not get cancelled.
11:48 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
11:48 < Actress1989> i speak icelandic
11:48 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: Just use the phrase Unmeidmemsurandomentaeninsi....
11:48 < TBloemink> They eventually rebooked us to February 2011 and that went fine
11:48 < Qcoder02> at that
11:48 < Qcoder02> *at them
11:48 < Actress1989> and i type in english
11:48 < Qcoder02> They won't know what it means ;)
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11:49 < WilliamH_UK> BarkingFish when I was going LHR to MUC once, the flight was cancelled and the BA lady at the desk made sure I was on one of the next flights the next day
11:49 < Qcoder02> But you and I will
11:49 < WilliamH_UK> can't understand why this time they have been so unhelpful
11:49 < Actress1989> hi Qcoder02
11:49 < Qcoder02> They are under pressure
11:49 < Qcoder02> hi Actress1989
11:49 < TBloemink> loyo, up for me
11:49 < TeeTylerToe> more emphasis on charging fees across all industries
11:49 < loyo> Hi Qcoder02
11:49 < BarkingFish> WilliamH_UK, I was told I could go out on the flight this morning, so I assumed they'd done the necessary.
11:49 < Qcoder02> Actress1989: Can you do voice acting?
11:49 -!- Jeske_Merensky [~chatzilla@50-47-197-129.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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11:50 < loyo> Actress1989, do you dub porn flicks?
11:50 < Actress1989> eww
11:50 < Qcoder02> loyo: That's not appropriate
11:50 < Actress1989> loyo eww
11:50 < TBloemink> loyo, behave, please
11:50 < Qcoder02> I was going to ask if someone was willing to record FA's
11:50 < Actress1989> Qcoder02 yes i can
11:50 < loyo> I can do it in a sultry & sexy voice.
11:50 < Actress1989> i use soundcloud
11:50 < TBloemink> loyo, not warning again
11:51 < Qcoder02> As well as some recent Arbcom rulings which need a calm voice
11:51 < loyo> with a soft music in background.
11:51 < loyo> with lots of mmmm and ooohhhh...
11:51 < loyo> mmmmmm
11:51 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o TBloemink] by ChanServ
11:51 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+q *!*@pool-98-117-201-93.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] by TBloemink
11:51 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o TBloemink] by ChanServ
11:51 < TBloemink> And yes, I warned you.
11:52 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:52 < Actress1989> how can i be a op
11:52 < Qcoder02> Actress1989: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mars_observation needs an audio if you are interested :)
11:52 < SigmaWP> Actress1989: Magic.
11:52 -!- Guest92146 [~sfmp@pool-98-117-201-93.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:52 * SigmaWP greets all the people
11:52 < Actress1989> maybe
11:52 < Jeske_Merensky> !op can we get +r on?
11:52 < TBloemink> No
11:52 < TBloemink> Not yet
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11:52 < RD> ^
11:53 < RD> there
11:53 < TBloemink> Awesome
11:53 < RD> Problem seems to be that people here are less than observant. :P
11:53 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has left #wikipedia-en []
11:53 < BarkingFish> The +q TBloemink applied meant that none of them could speak, Jeske_Merensky :)
11:54 < Actress1989> is there any la channel
11:54 < BarkingFish> wouldn't matter how many times they came in under different nicks
11:54 -!- Mrmatiko [~Mrmatiko@wikipedia/Mrmatiko] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:54 < TBloemink> Luckily
11:54 < Actress1989> los angeles
11:54 < Actress1989> ?
11:54 < Shearonink> Actress1989: No idea, sorry.
11:54 < Jeske_Merensky> Actress1989) No.
11:54 < Jeske_Merensky> There is no Valspeak Wikipedia
11:54 < Qcoder02> ROFL
11:55 < Actress1989> i wasnt mean wikipedia
11:55 < Fasttimes68> ahh.. i love mid afternoon soccer matches
11:56 < Jeske_Merensky> Nor was I, Actress.
11:56 < Actress1989> :)
11:57 < Jeske_Merensky> The Wikipedia-related channels are grouped by language, not reason. (#wikipedia-en , #wikipedia-es , #wikipedia-de , etc.)
11:57 -!- peteforsyth [~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth] has quit [Quit: peteforsyth]
11:57 < BarkingFish> Now that's a face I'm gonna miss seeing when I watch the live streams of London Fashion Week... Anna Piaggi died today :(
11:57 < Jeske_Merensky> *region
11:57 * BarkingFish is most disappoint
11:57 < Fasttimes68> #wikipedia-freaks
11:57 < Jeske_Merensky> Stop pimping your genetic-experimentation channel, Fasttimes68
11:57 < Fasttimes68> bitches get stitches
11:57 < Fasttimes68> :p
11:58 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: You watch London Fashion Week?
11:58 < Fasttimes68> Having a TV show that made light of wife-beating. How awesome was that?
11:58 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, find me a gay guy who says they're not interested in fashion, and I'll show you a liar :P
11:58 < Qcoder02> XD
11:59 -!- Tony_Sidaway_ [~Tony_Sida@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
11:59 < Fasttimes68> BarkingFish: Gay bikers
11:59 < Qcoder02> Not all Gay Guys are into fashion
11:59 < Fasttimes68> thank god
11:59 < Qcoder02> Fasttimes68: Gay Bikers are into LEATHER !!
11:59 < BarkingFish> Leather can be fashionable
11:59 < Qcoder02> As can rubber
11:59 < Qcoder02> ;)
11:59 < Qcoder02> Sorry
12:00 < BarkingFish> lol
12:00 < Jeske_Merensky> I'm not into fashion whatsoever.
12:00 * Qcoder02 knows way too much about subcultures...
12:00 < Fasttimes68> Sterotypes.. i love em
12:00 < BarkingFish> 0.0
12:00 < Fasttimes68> This gay guy I know started exercising and lost a lot of weight
12:00 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:00 < Qcoder02> For example there is an entire gay fetish scene that's different from the straight fetish scene
12:00 < Fasttimes68> I was hesitant to ask him, but finally did. "Aren't you afraid of losing your bear status?"
12:00 < Fasttimes68> it was a concern
12:01 -!- Jeske_Merensky_ [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:01 < Qcoder02> Thankfully I've neve met a 'hard' gay Biker type...
12:01 < Fasttimes68> shh. hes back
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12:01 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, oh they're around
12:01 < Qcoder02> Most of the Gay people I've met have been to Butlins ;)
12:01 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o RD] by ChanServ
12:01 < Fasttimes68> whats butlin?
12:01 < TBloemink> .,
12:02 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
12:02 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o TBloemink] by ChanServ
12:02 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@pool-98-117-201-93.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] by TBloemink
12:02 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o TBloemink] by ChanServ
12:02 < BarkingFish> Fasttimes68, it's a holiday camp chain in the UK
12:02 < TBloemink> Ha-ha
12:02 < TBloemink> I beat you guys
12:02 < Fasttimes68> gay camp?
12:02 < Qcoder02> barkingFish : Can you explain the Butlin's joke ?
12:02 * Fluffernutter glares at TBloemink
12:02 < Qcoder02> Fasttimes68: Well 'camp'
12:02 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, no, I don't understand it myself
12:02 -!- Actress1989 [~IceChat9@85-220-14-185.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
12:02 < Fasttimes68> must be like fire island in long island
12:02 < BarkingFish> oh, yes. Got ya
12:02 < Fasttimes68> heh. never noticed that until now "fire island"
12:03 < Fasttimes68> you cant make this shit up
12:03 < Shearonink> Marvin Hamlisch has died
12:03 < Shearonink> wow
12:03 < Fasttimes68> ?
12:03 < Qcoder02> They are the sort that says really outrageous things, but it never upset the man from the gas board... Really darling....
12:03 < Qcoder02> ;)
12:03 < BarkingFish> As has Bernard Lovell, Shearonink
12:04 -!- Jeske_Merensky [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
12:04 < Fasttimes68> Good match on
12:04 < Qcoder02> Fasttimes68: You've never encounteed Frankie Howerd, Kenneth Willimas or Graham Norton?
12:04 -!- Jeske_Merensky_ is now known as Jeske_Merensky
12:04 < Fasttimes68> Anyone see the end of Canada v USA yesteray?
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12:04 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+r] by RD
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12:04 < Fasttimes68> Seen Grahm Norton. I dont find him funny
12:04 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@68-114-54-54.dhcp.davl.vt.charter.com] by Fluffernutter
12:05 < Qcoder02> BarkingFish: On Fashion things...
12:05 < Fasttimes68> well, funny "ha ha"
12:05 < TeeTylerToe> couldn't you use text to voice software for audio versions of articles?
12:05 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
12:05 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-ooo RD RD RD] by RD
12:05 < Qcoder02> Have you heard what Text to voice usally sounds like?
12:05 < BarkingFish> Fasttimes68, butlins isn't specifically a gay camp, dude. Some of the best comedians started in butlins and pontins as stage entertainers.
12:05 < Shearonink> Not everyone has the technology
12:05 < Fasttimes68> what does "camp" mean to you?
12:05 < TeeTylerToe> it wasn't great in 1990
12:05 < Qcoder02> It still isn't
12:06 < Fluffernutter> overkill, RD :P
12:06 < Qcoder02> Some TTS still sounds like it was done on 8-bit
12:06 < Qcoder02> :(
12:06 < Fasttimes68> to us it means a place where kids live in tents or cabins away from the family for a few weeks during summer
12:06 < TeeTylerToe> the voice to text could create article for every article on the site
12:06 < TeeTylerToe> which everyone could use
12:06 < RD> Fluffernutter: Overkill or underkill? :)
12:06 < Qcoder02> TeeTylerToe: TTS Isn't good with intonation...
12:07 < Qcoder02> Or at least it wasn't when i looked into it a few years ago
12:07 < Qcoder02> It ends up to me sounding robotic , like Hawking or like Glados
12:07 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o RD] by ChanServ
12:07 < Fluffernutter> there, now it's perfect :P
12:07 < RD> Thank you.
12:08 < SigmaWP> deöpped!
12:08 < WilliamH_UK> Lee Mack started in Butlins
12:08 < Fasttimes68> are there choclocate versions of fluffernutters? That would be good
12:08 < WilliamH_UK> and he is one of the funniest comedians ever
12:08 < Qcoder02> "This is a Wiki-PEE-DIE-A article on cake.. This article , may contain unverified information...' XD
12:08 < Fluffernutter> nutella and fluff, Fasttimes68
12:08 < Fasttimes68> slap in a hersheys bar
12:08 < TeeTylerToe> how much intonation is an encyclopedia supposed to have?
12:08 < Qcoder02> Fasttimes68: XD
12:08 < Fasttimes68> nutella <> chocolate
12:08 < SigmaWP> Fasttimes68: <> is deprecated
12:08 < SigmaWP> Use != instead.
12:09 < Fasttimes68> I use vb
12:09 < SigmaWP> I haven't used <> since visual basic....
12:09 < Fasttimes68> sorry
12:09 < SigmaWP> Ah
12:09 < Qcoder02> Fasttimes68: That give me a bad mental image
12:09 < Fasttimes68> its a good language
12:09 < SoapX> Visual Basic is the language of the future
12:09 < Qcoder02> ROFL
12:09 < Qcoder02> Python!!
12:09 < Qcoder02> PHP!!
12:09 < Qcoder02> Scheme!!
12:09 < Qcoder02> MediaWiki 2.0!!
12:09 < Qcoder02> XD
12:09 < SigmaWP> Qcoder02: I can go on for hours about how PHP is worse than Python
12:09 < SigmaWP> Probably not
12:09 < Fasttimes68> meh, if I cant read it in 30 secs, then its a shitty language
12:10 < SigmaWP> Mabe 10 minutes
12:10 < Qcoder02> Actually I'm suprised Wikipedia doesn't have it's own programming language yet ;)
12:10 < BarkingFish> oopsie. Can someone move this and fix it please? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Name.jpg
12:10 < SigmaWP> Extension:ParserFunctions
12:10 < BarkingFish> wait, don't.
12:10 < Qcoder02> Are they Turing complete?
12:10 < BarkingFish> nvm
12:10 -!- ItzExor [~me@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:d6f2:e8a8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:10 < BarkingFish> Some guy uploaded a picture to use on a Wikipedia article, and it looks like he's fucked up.
12:10 < TeeTylerToe> I'm surprised wikipedia hasn't improved on things like templates, and how to present knowledge
12:11 < BarkingFish> See http://enwp.org/Second_marriage_dot_com
12:11 < BarkingFish> Is there any way of actually finding the pic he uploaded?
12:11 < Qcoder02> Check his upload log?
12:12 -!- Krenair [~Krenair@wikimedia/Krenair] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
12:12 < BarkingFish> can't see anything uploaded, Qcoder02
12:12 < BarkingFish> i guess it musta got rejected and he never noticed
12:12 < Shearonink> he didn;t upload anything
12:13 < Fluffernutter> it's showing that placeholder image because he didn't give an image name at all
12:13 < Shearonink> other thsn ".jpg"
12:13 < Fluffernutter> i've fixed it
12:13 < BarkingFish> oh. Well that's bloody silly then :)
12:13 < BarkingFish> lol
12:13 < BarkingFish> Thanks Fluffernutter
12:13 * Fluffernutter bows
12:14 < Qcoder02> Are there any women here that can tell me how to make a man shake?
12:14 -!- purplebackpack89 [476a94e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.106.148.228] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:15 < Fasttimes68> get a big blender?
12:15 < Qcoder02> Someone asked me if there was a way of doing it with charming language... and not being female I don't know the answer
12:15 < Fluffernutter> ...what
12:15 < SigmaWP> Fasttimes68: lol
12:15 < TeeTylerToe> a vibration table
12:15 < TeeTylerToe> set that thing to 10Hz
12:15 < Qcoder02> TeeTylerToe: ?
12:15 < TeeTylerToe> they're used for product testing
12:15 < Qcoder02> 'Body Massage Nuh-Huh' </DUKE>
12:15 < TeeTylerToe> put a man on a shake table and set it to 10Hz
12:16 < Qcoder02> Are those table even certified for human use?
12:16 < TeeTylerToe> I wouldn't recommend trying to orbit a man with one
12:17 < Qcoder02> I'm sure you could send them to the heavens though...
12:17 < Qcoder02> ;)
12:17 * Qcoder02 notes that one down ....
12:17 -!- Patar_knight [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Patar-knight] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:17 < purplebackpack89> is anybody here an admin who knows how to fix the country data templates?
12:17 < TeeTylerToe> I think would be more like a dryer for those kinds of purposes
12:18 < Qcoder02> OMG Dryers help people to orbit... We must ban this dnagerous abomination !! :)
12:18 < TeeTylerToe> North korea might have dryer technology right this second!
12:18 < Fasttimes68> purplebackpack89: whats the problem with the template?
12:18 < Fasttimes68> u guys watching this kor-bra match?
12:19 < Qcoder02> TeeTylorTOe: You jest... but I seem to recall someone claiming you could use a dryer as a makeshift centrifuge...
12:19 -!- dexstar [~dexstar@p5B0A21FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #wikipedia-en ["Linkinus - http://linkinus.com"]
12:19 < TeeTylerToe> 0.o
12:19 < TeeTylerToe> there was the rocket body tubes that people said could be used for high revolution centrifuges... which they can't
12:20 < haggis> I am learning to use the SHIFT key for my CAPS
12:20 < Fluffernutter> SHOCKING
12:20 < TBloemink> Another person that always uses capslock to type capital letters?
12:20 < Qcoder02> Fluffernutter: So do you know how to make a man shake with charming language?
12:20 < TBloemink> Lol
12:20 < Fluffernutter> put him in a car with a flat tire?
12:21 < Fluffernutter> and then say "oh dear, that vibration means we have a flat!"
12:21 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:21 -!- Bruvtakesover is now known as iKiewii|Toilet
12:21 < Qcoder02> Awful joke coming up...
12:21 < SoapX> [[Honey Bee Therapy for Multiple Sclerosis(MS)]] <--- this page looks interesting
12:21 -!- yuvipanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/Yuvipandan] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
12:22 -!- iKiewii|Toilet is now known as IKiewii|Away
12:22 -!- purplebackpack89 [476a94e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.106.148.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:22 -!- Shearonink [62a9f0a1@wikipedia/Shearonink] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:22 -!- Wehwalt [4462af34@wikipedia/Wehwalt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:22 < Qcoder02> " How many Wikipedians does it take to screw in a light bulb? None Wikipedians aren't that Kinky..."
12:22 < Qcoder02> ".. try Commons..!"
12:22 < Fasttimes68> goooooooooal
12:23 < SoapX> is that a reference to wikipedians taking anything with the word 'screw' in it to be obscene?
12:23 < SoapX> because if so it's right-on
12:23 < Qcoder02> SoapX: Carefully observed... ;)
12:24 < Qcoder02> Altough it's used in other contexts as well .. I once saw an odd item in an Ann Summers like store called an Archimedian Screw ;)
12:24 < haggis> these are people you should defriend https://www.facebook.com/browse/friended_fans_of/?page_id=6248267085
12:25 < Qcoder02> "Whats the difference between a killer robot and an Arbcom member?"
12:25 < Qcoder02> " A killer robot can be reporgrammed!"
12:25 < Qcoder02> *reprogrammed.
12:26 < Qcoder02> "What's the difference between a Wikipedian and Wikiverstiy conributor?" " A ban"
12:27 < Qcoder02> "Why did they get youths to light the olympic torch? ... Cause it was representative of Britan. "
12:27 -!- purplebackpack89 [476a94e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.106.148.228] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:27 < purplebackpack89> I was saying how the Slovakia basketball team is broken when I had to reset my connection
12:28 < Qcoder02> "How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb....?" "None.. Drummers know what a light bulb is?"
12:28 < Qcoder02> "What's the difference between a metal concert and a Zombie Invasion?" "Shotguns work on Zombies..."
12:29 < Qcoder02> Too soon?
12:29 < purplebackpack89> whenever you use "SVK" or "Slovakia" with the basketball template, it shows up as "Slovak Republic", when it should show up as "Slovakia"
12:30 < Jeske_Merensky> Spoiler for the new Batman movie: Half-hour in, some guy in armor comes into the scene and starts shooting things up
12:30 -!- TBloemink is now known as TB|Away
12:30 < Qcoder02> Jeske_Merensky: Ouch
12:31 < BarkingFish> purplebackpack89, can you link me to the template please?
12:31 < jeremyb> foks: try swapping the order of {{pp-dispute}} and #REDIRECT ?
12:31 < foks> jeremyb, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
12:31 < foks> A space is the best option clearly
12:31 < purplebackpack89> BarkingFish: the basketball template or the country template?
12:32 < jeremyb> foks: my point is it's not a redirect atm. try making it really a redirect? ;)
12:32 < foks> Oh.
12:32 < foks> Shut up! :(
12:32 < haggis> foks: hello
12:32 < BarkingFish> whichever one is fucked up, purplebackpack89
12:32 < BarkingFish> you said it's in the basketball template, so I'd assume it's that one
12:33 < purplebackpack89> probably, cuz Slovakia's football team is showing up as Slovakia
12:33 < purplebackpack89> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Bk
12:33 * SigmaWP sends BarkingFish to -helpers
12:33 < jeremyb> foks: ;-)
12:35 -!- Earwig [~earwig@wikipedia/The-Earwig] has left #wikipedia-en []
12:35 < SigmaWP> Earwig hates me!
12:36 < foks> jeremyb, I h8 u
12:36 < foks> <3
12:36 < Fluffernutter> bugs are not known for their gentle emotions
12:36 < jeremyb> quick survey: who has ever had a fluffernutter?
12:36 * jeremyb hasn't
12:37 * Fluffernutter has
12:37 < Fluffernutter> foks has too
12:37 < Fluffernutter> (he hated it)
12:37 < foks> Yeah, it was manky.
12:37 < jeremyb> and who has Fluffernutter watched eat a fluffernutter ?
12:37 < foks> I ate it out of respect!
12:37 < jeremyb> hah
12:37 < foks> It was pretty horrible though.
12:37 < Fluffernutter> i made foks and steven zhang eat them when I picked them up at the airport prior to WM
12:37 < purplebackpack89> carmelo anthony had a fluffernutter on live TV yesterday
12:38 < BarkingFish> purplebackpack89, It looks like this is the faulty template, but I can't figure out how to fix it. Anyone else got any ideas? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Country_data_Slovakia
12:38 < foks> Granted it was hard to eat in the back of a car in Manhattan
12:38 < jeremyb> Fluffernutter: good job
12:38 < BarkingFish> brb
12:38 * Fluffernutter still cannot fathom how one can dislike a fluffernutter, though
12:38 < Fluffernutter> I think foks must be ill
12:38 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:38 < jeremyb> Fluffernutter: how's the driving in DC relative to the best borough in the world?
12:38 < Fluffernutter> in both places, I tend to get a ride
12:38 < jeremyb> ohhhh, *that* airport
12:38 < jeremyb> i figured it was dulles or something
12:39 < purplebackpack89> BarkingFish: I think it has something to do with the fact that for a few years, Czechoslovakia was know as the Slovak Republic
12:39 < haggis> Fluffernutter: too sweet
12:39 < jeremyb> i guess they were in NYC so it makes sense
12:39 < haggis> it's like those overly sweet cakes you can only eat so much of before they're nauseating.
12:39 < foks> Fluffernutter, I don't like peanut butter so it was always going to be a stretch
12:39 < foks> :p
12:40 < haggis> foks: WHAT?!?!?!?
12:40 < foks> What?
12:40 -!- Shearonink [62a9f0a1@wikipedia/Shearonink] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:40 < foks> Peanut butter is horrible.
12:40 < Fluffernutter> o_O
12:40 < WilliamH_UK> seconded
12:40 < purplebackpack89> oh...you see, my mind was in the gutter on this one
12:40 < haggis> WilliamH_UK: I thought you were cool
12:40 < haggis> foks: well...
12:41 < haggis> j/k
12:41 < haggis> SigmaWP: but wouldn't that make it *not* a ball?
12:41 < Fluffernutter> what is it about the UK? Are you all ill?
12:41 < haggis> if it isn't round?
12:41 < foks> On my list of Sandwich Fillers I Dislike, peanut butter is second only to marmit
12:41 < foks> *e
12:41 < SigmaWP> mind = blown
12:42 * haggis has organic peanut butter
12:42 < haggis> it tastes different
12:43 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:43 -!- rr0 [kvirc@wikipedia/ruslik0] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/]
12:43 < jeremyb> foks: he wants to know if you want more mail ;)
12:44 < WilliamH_UK> marmite is sensational
12:44 < foks> I do have my mail client open y'know
12:44 < foks> ;)
12:44 * Fluffernutter has never had marmite
12:44 < haggis> Fluffernutter: http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-statistics/
12:44 < Fluffernutter> or vegemite
12:44 -!- Jarry1250_ [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:45 < Fasttimes68> are there any online sources for National Geograhpic?
12:45 < foks> Fluffernutter, it's not really that nice.
12:45 < foks> I mean, it's not terrible
12:45 < foks> It's not as bad as, say, peanut butter
12:45 * foks duck
12:45 < foks> +s
12:45 < haggis> foks: what is marmite? i might've had it
12:45 < foks> It's yeast extract.
12:45 < foks> Mostly.
12:45 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:45 < haggis> er, maybe not
12:45 -!- Jarry1250_ is now known as Jarry1250
12:46 < SoapX> the best sandwich filler is roast beef
12:46 < SoapX> and then corned beef
12:46 < foks> USA took silver in the high jump
12:46 < foks> a college kid no less
12:46 < haggis> foks: did you see that dive?
12:46 < jeremyb> corned beef++ !!
12:46 < foks> what dive
12:46 < foks> CORNED BEEF YUS
12:47 < Fluffernutter> also never had that
12:48 < SigmaWP> People who tag their own articles for speedy deletion are interesting
12:48 -!- Susuke_Tamagawa [~Lisa_Logg@c-98-204-30-21.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:49 < haggis> foks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u71qUU3Oos
12:49 < TeeTylerToe> on the utrs page, a page to make unblock appeals if your talk page edit has been blocked, at the bottom it suggests if you have any questions you should ask on your talk page...
12:49 < haggis> he got a 0
12:49 < foks> haggis, aww
12:50 < haggis> he sure fecked that up
12:50 -!- njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has left #wikipedia-en []
12:50 -!- diegogrez [diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:52 < BarkingFish> SoapX, I'd pass on the corned beef, but I'd sure as hell go with Pastrami as the absolute best filler for any sandwich. Combined with lettuce, onion, tomato and gherkin, a little ranch dressing and slap that lot in a footlong sub, you cannot go wrong.
12:53 < purplebackpack89> BarkingFish: should I ask somewhere else how to fix the Slovakia bk/bk-right template issue? If so, where?
12:54 < BarkingFish> I've no idea, purplebackpack89 - maybe mention it on the talk page?
12:54 < purplebackpack89> of...
12:55 < foks> Pastrami was a bit shit when I had it in the US
12:55 < BarkingFish> the template, purplebackpack89
12:55 < foks> Well, I mean, it was okay
12:55 < foks> but it wasn't the best thing since sliced bread
12:55 < foks> But then I'm a chicken+mayo man (read: boring)
12:55 < SoapX> yes pastrami is good too
12:55 < BarkingFish> if it's something transcluded into the template, mentioning it on the template's talk page will probably lead to someone investigating where it's buggered, and fixing it
12:55 < SoapX> a variant of the reuben sandwich is to use pastrami instead of corned beef, and all other ingredients the same
12:56 < SoapX> D'Angelo's (a local sub shop) does that
12:56 -!- WilliamH_UK [WilliamH@Wikipedia/WilliamH] has quit []
12:56 < SoapX> TeeTylerToe: could you show me that?
12:56 < foks> My ideal sub is diced chicken, mayo and cress
12:56 < foks> :P
12:56 < SoapX> it should be fixed
12:56 -!- IKiewii|Away is now known as Bruvtakesover
12:57 < foks> Nothing more, nothing less
12:57 < SoapX> my ideal hot sub is a Reuben
12:57 < SoapX> cold sub would be Subway's BMT
12:57 < SoapX> with no cheese but plenty of vegetables
12:57 < foks> I can't really do hot subs
12:57 < foks> they fall out
12:57 < foks> :p
12:58 < foks> I don't know what a Reuben is though
12:58 < diegogrez> I've got a question re. the WP:Notability guideline
12:59 < diegogrez> and it's about this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jos%C3%A9_Arra%C3%B1o_Acevedo&diff=506277153&oldid=506266166
12:59 < TeeTylerToe> apparently npr thinks rob portman might be romney's vp because his wiki article is being edited the most
12:59 < diegogrez> Most references about the guy are from the eighties and only some of them are rescued in a Chilean government website. The contemporanean sources are some news articles on his death.
12:59 < diegogrez> Does that even help me prove his notability? Or he is not notable under the AUTHOR guideline?
13:00 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
13:01 < BarkingFish> SoapX, I like Subway's stuff - I must admit i've never been able to pack away a footlong sub yet. I do 6 inch Italian Herbs & Cheese, with ham, turkey and beef, swiss cheese, lettuce, onion, tomato, pickles and jalapeño, dressed with ranch.
13:01 < SoapX> really?
13:01 < SoapX> lol
13:01 < SoapX> i have a huge appetite
13:01 < RD> I ate Subway for lunch today.
13:01 < foks> BarkingFish, how does that stay in a sub
13:01 < foks> :P
13:01 < diegogrez> Anybody? Thank you, thank you...
13:01 < BarkingFish> I bought a footlong once, and had to wrap half and put it in my fridge for supper. I couldn't do the whole lot in one sitting.
13:01 * foks is *really* messy with subs
13:01 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:01 < RD> We're busy discussing lunch and you want to talk about notability? Pfft.
13:01 < foks> diegogrez, I don't know
13:02 < SoapX> Subway's bread is pretty roomy
13:02 < RD> gtfo
13:02 < RD> jk
13:02 < RD> !
13:02 < RD> :)
13:02 < SoapX> they have a way of making their subs not messy
13:02 < diegogrez> :(
13:02 < SoapX> if I tried to make the same sandwich at home, it wouldnt work
13:02 < BarkingFish> foks - there's a trick to it. You get them to wrap the sub nice and tight, so you can rip the top off, eat your way down, and anything that falls out the back, you catch in the wrapping.
13:02 < foks> Ah
13:03 < RD> SoapX: Make a sub, and flush 10 bucks down the toilet
13:03 < foks> Interesting!
13:03 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: I think I know what you mean. They're like gigantic sponges (in consistency) whereas domestic bread tends to be crispy and springy.
13:03 < RD> Then it'll be just the same
13:03 < RD> :D
13:03 < SoapX> id never pay $10 for a sandwich
13:03 < RD> I paid 7 today by accident
13:03 < RD> Because I read the sign wrong ... though I think it was intentional.
13:03 < BarkingFish> Well that little combo above, costs me £5.85 with a large drink and a cookie
13:03 -!- pginer [~pau@80.30.94.182] has left #wikipedia-en []
13:03 < SoapX> Subway is #1 here, but we have competitors that have more expensive sandwiches that are supposedly better but I dont htink so
13:04 < foks> BarkingFish, not bad
13:04 < SoapX> you read the sign wrong?
13:04 < BarkingFish> I dunno what that is in dollars, and I can't seem to get to the UCC at the moment
13:04 < SoapX> how so?
13:04 < SoapX> £5.85 is about $10 I think
13:04 < BarkingFish> can anyone else reach http://xe.com/ucc
13:05 -!- Internet13 [~Internet1@cpc26-croy20-2-0-cust25.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:05 < SoapX> yeah
13:05 < SoapX> it says it's $9.15
13:05 < SoapX> surprisingly low, I thought the pound was almost $2 US
13:05 < Tony_Sidaway> I once worked for Reuters who very kindly paid for all staff (including myself, a contractor) to take lunch at their desks. I had a rather large plate of sushi and a nice big sandwich, and a half litre of orange juice, every day.
13:06 < SoapX> we're still below the Canadian dollar though
13:06 < BarkingFish> so that's a pretty low rate, what's that... about $1.70 to £1?
13:06 < BarkingFish> or less...
13:06 < SoapX> and the Australian dollar!!
13:06 < SoapX> oh the embarrassment. Australia's currency is worth more than ours. Gone are the days of looking at books saying $4.99 US, $9.99 AUS
13:06 < foks> Cost of living is a bit higher in the UK
13:06 < haggis> foks: have you seen "catch me if you can"?
13:06 < Tony_Sidaway> It must have cost them the equivalent of A$10 every lunchtime, and this was nearly 20 years ago.
13:07 -!- Jarry1250_ [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:07 < foks> haggis, no
13:07 < TeeTylerToe> yea, it turns out that companies that have, for instance very nice dining facilities in the office, and other such amenities have them because they've studied it, and the facilities improve productivity
13:08 < SoapX> agree
13:08 < SoapX> i hate working at places where it's like a sin to go on lunch break
13:08 < Fluffernutter> mmhm
13:08 < BarkingFish> holy cow. Fair warning to people neglecting to scoop the poop near this lady's home :P http://i.imgur.com/J7RbL.jpg
13:08 < TeeTylerToe> same with the canadian dollar. Almost overnight it doubled in value
13:08 < Fluffernutter> the places that provide meals provide them so you're at your desk longer
13:08 -!- Internet13 [~Internet1@cpc26-croy20-2-0-cust25.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:08 < SoapX> and you either dont have a break room at all, or a tiny one where you have to eat on your lap and youre always in the way of other people
13:08 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:08 -!- Jarry1250_ is now known as Jarry1250
13:09 < Tony_Sidaway> Well it certainly made me very happy. All that and then I got to go up onto the external gallery of St Pauls.
13:09 < TeeTylerToe> or for instance big box stores that have decent break rooms because they lock the employees in for "loss prevention"
13:10 < Tony_Sidaway> I actually splashed out for an annual pass to all areas of the cathedral. It was perfectly lovely.
13:11 -!- Krenair [~Krenair@wikimedia/Krenair] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:11 < Tony_Sidaway> You can go up to the very top and look down onto the floor from a tiny porthole at the top of the dome.
13:11 -!- russavia [~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:11 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:11 -!- lexein [~chatzilla@wikipedia/lexein] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:12 -!- Internet13 [~Internet1@cpc26-croy20-2-0-cust25.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:12 < Tony_Sidaway> The Whispering Gallery really does have extraordinary acoustics, too.
13:12 -!- Barras [barras@wikimedia/barras] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:12 < lexein> Ok, so is there any way for spontaneous public pages such as ##wpenhelpLexein to include the helperbot functionality, like link expansion?
13:12 < lexein> I'm thinking that such pages, in public, might be better than PM pages, for help.
13:13 < Tony_Sidaway> lexein: you mean invite the helperbot to such a channel ?
13:13 < TeeTylerToe> does this room have the link helperbot?
13:13 < Tony_Sidaway> That sounds like a good idea.
13:13 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:14 < lexein> TonySidaway - yes - is it possible?
13:14 < Tony_Sidaway> I think you'd just have to ask whoever runs the bot in question and ask if it is possible to add a new channel (ad hoc) to its list of channels.
13:14 < lexein> without being an admin?
13:14 < lexein> Ah - I see.
13:14 < Tony_Sidaway> lexein: that depends on how the owner of the bot configures it.
13:15 < Tony_Sidaway> I see no harm in an IRC user being able to invite a bot to his own channels.
13:15 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:15 -!- Internet13 [~Internet1@cpc26-croy20-2-0-cust25.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:16 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@openglobe/BarkingFish] has quit [Quit: I used to be a werewolf, but I'm alright nooooOOOOOOOOWWWWWW! :)]
13:18 < Tony_Sidaway> I just found out how to tell irssi not to obsessively inform me whenever somebody joins, parts or quits. It makes the quality of IRC channel content immeasurably higher.
13:20 -!- ItzExor [~exor@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:d6f2:e8a8] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:20 < Tony_Sidaway> Who actually cares when someone joins or leaves a channel? IRC is essentially a one-to-many realtime medium.
13:20 -!- lazy [barras@wikimedia/barras] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:21 < ItzExor> does this network auto identify you based on ip?
13:21 < Tony_Sidaway> All statements on channel, that is, are public, not intrinsically addressed to a private individual.
13:21 < ItzExor> i didn't identify to nickserv
13:21 < Jeske_Merensky> No it doesn't.
13:21 -!- shimgray [~andrew@wikimedia/Shimgray] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:21 < Jeske_Merensky> It autoidntifies you based on your client's settings.
13:21 < ItzExor> i wonder how i became identified
13:22 -!- TB|Away is now known as TBloemink
13:22 < ItzExor> i just re made the ZNC user and it was identified right as it logged on
13:22 < ItzExor> lol
13:22 < Tony_Sidaway> ItzExor: there is some kind of SSL certificate thingie which I set up because I had a few spare minutes and it sounded like a good idea at the time.
13:22 -!- Internet13 [~Internet1@cpc26-croy20-2-0-cust25.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
13:22 < ItzExor> pretty convenient
13:22 -!- lazy is now known as Barras
13:23 -!- M132T003C [~MTC@wikimedia/MTC] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~]
13:23 < diegogrez> .-.
13:23 < Tony_Sidaway> use_ssl = "yes";
13:23 < Tony_Sidaway> ssl_cert = "~/.irssi/mynick.pem";
13:23 < Tony_Sidaway> SOmething like that.
13:24 -!- TeeTylerToe [~terrafirm@pool-173-66-178-25.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
13:24 < foks> Also, Algeria just won one of the shiftiest golds ever
13:24 < ItzExor> oh you mean you set it up client side?
13:24 < Tony_Sidaway> Is the Olympics still on?
13:24 < foks> yes
13:24 < ItzExor> i have nothing set like that to identify
13:25 < ItzExor> i didn't even have auto nickserv set
13:25 -!- TeeTylerToe [~terrafirm@pool-173-66-178-25.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:25 < Tony_Sidaway> ItzExor: yes, it's sort of handy if you feel somebody might get upset at you and do something naughty.
13:25 < TeeTylerToe> it does look like freenode's pretty proactive about shouting your ip to everyone
13:26 < MartijnH> are there any hindi speakers about who can do a quick google check for me?
13:26 < Tony_Sidaway> TeeTylerToe: I thought cloaking was supposed to fix that at first, but the network FAQ says no you should use tor for that.
13:26 < diegogrez> duh, can someone please look at the shitty article of José Arraño Acevedo?
13:27 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Pharos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:27 < TeeTylerToe> well people that do cloak always join uncloaked for a sec before they join cloaked
13:27 < TeeTylerToe> maybe whenever their connection drops
13:27 < Tony_Sidaway> TeeTylerToe: yep. But I can't be arsed to use tor and I couldn't give a hoot who knows my IP anyway.
13:28 < jeremyb> haha, http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/08/07/158320294/one-clue-to-romneys-veep-pick-whose-wiki-page-is-getting-the-most-edits
13:28 -!- MarchingFrood is now known as Frood
13:29 < TeeTylerToe> apparently npr thinks rob portman might be romney's vp because his wiki article is being edited the most
13:29 -!- James_F is now known as James_F|Away
13:29 < shimgray> jeremyb: well, Palin was a good coincidence last time
13:29 < SoapX> huh? Romney still hasnt chosen a running mate?
13:29 < Tony_Sidaway> Ooh, does that sound like an invitation to hackery? I do run OpenBSD but that doesn't mean I think it's immune to hacking (I've opened it pretty wide).
13:29 < SoapX> seems like hes not serious aboyut expecting to win
13:29 < TeeTylerToe> he's stilling running generic republican as his running mate. generic republican is the only politician that gets more than 50% of the vote
13:30 < SigmaWP> (I've opened it pretty wide).
13:30 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: he's got weeks yet.
13:30 < SigmaWP> Tony_Sidaway: ಠ_ಠ
13:30 -!- jubo2 [~jubo2@87-95-57-110.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Beams.]
13:30 < TeeTylerToe> openbsd couldn't prevent you from being ddos'd or something
13:30 -!- jc39 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:30 < Tony_Sidaway> TeeTylerToe: no. I don't worry about it.
13:31 -!- ty is now known as tyime
13:31 < Tony_Sidaway> If I did I might use one of my shell accounts. Actually that sounds like fun. I'll give it a go.
13:32 < Tony_Sidaway> My cjb account comes out via tor, so I suppose I could copy my irssi settings to it and see if it runs.
13:32 < MartijnH> is there a hindi wikipe*ia channel somewhere anyone knows off?
13:33 < TeeTylerToe> #wikipedia-in?
13:33 -!- WilliamH_UK [~WilliamH_@Wikipedia/WilliamH] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:33 < Tony_Sidaway> MartijnH: try #wikipedia-XX where XX is the language code for the Hindi Wikipedia.
13:33 < MartijnH> that's hi
13:33 < MartijnH> which is empty
13:33 -!- Lubaf [~chatzilla@c-67-188-188-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:33 < TeeTylerToe> there are two people in -in, dunno what the channel is though
13:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Not that surprising. Try other Indian Wikipedia languages and see if you find a Hindi speaker.
13:35 -!- joedecker [~joedecker@wikipedia/Joe-Decker] has quit [Quit: joedecker]
13:35 < Tony_Sidaway> Of course one of the biggest such languages in English, but here we are and apparently no Hindi speakers.
13:36 < Tony_Sidaway> By golly I _am_ going to try that cjb account with irssi and ssl.
13:36 < shimgray> well, India is five and a half hours ahead of UTC. it's not entirely surprising.
13:36 -!- Fae [~Fae@wikipedia/Fae] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:40 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh my attempt to join freenode from my free cjb.net shell account got me a black hole message (not surprising because it exits via tor).
13:41 < TeeTylerToe> one of the firm rules of the five pillars is that there are no firm rules
13:42 -!- Tanvir [~tanvir@wikimedia/wikitanvir] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:42 < jc39> -ja
13:44 -!- Fae [~Fae@wikipedia/Fae] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:45 < Tony_Sidaway> Slightly _more_ surprising, another free shell provider, shellmix, is also banned.
13:45 -!- purplebackpack89 [476a94e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.106.148.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:45 < Tony_Sidaway> I'm down to one shell account worth trying: polarhome/
13:46 < TeeTylerToe> people abuse anonymous internet accounts?
13:47 < TeeTylerToe> free ones at that!
13:47 < TeeTylerToe> how do you say el bastardo in spanish?
13:48 < jc39> who
13:49 -!- Earwig [~earwig@wikipedia/The-Earwig] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:49 -!- Fae [~Fae@wikipedia/Fae] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:49 < jc39> myshair
13:49 < jc39> um
13:49 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@openglobe/BarkingFish] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:50 * SigmaWP hugs BarkingFish
13:50 < BarkingFish> :)
13:50 * jc39 mutters about ungrouping the nick 'jc37'
13:50 < jc39> should I ungroup jc37?
13:50 < Tony_Sidaway> Good news, chaps. Polarhome still has a good reputation with freenode, as well as with me.
13:50 * jeremyb midair collides Fluffernutter ;)
13:50 < TeeTylerToe> unless time starts going backwards?
13:50 < BarkingFish> jc39, why do you want to ungroup it?
13:51 < BarkingFish> don't use it, or just don't want it?
13:51 < Fluffernutter> heh
13:51 < jc39> [[User:Jc37]]
13:51 < jc39> ^
13:51 < Tony_Sidaway> I sent Zoltan ten units of my local currency oh about ten years ago, and it's still there.
13:51 < BarkingFish> i'd ungroup it then, jc39 - that way if they come on and want to use the nick, they can. It's ultimately your decision though, but that's what I'd do.
13:52 < jc39> done
13:52 -!- Earwig is now known as Earwig|busy
13:52 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
13:52 < BarkingFish> I have a nick I was gonna ungroup, jc39 - then I realized the user on WP with the same nick is blocked as a VOA, so I got no worries about keeping it.
13:53 < Tony_Sidaway> Isn't it funny, though. Because it actually costs people a tiny bit of money to start a Polarhome account, the arseholes stay away and it hasn't been blackholed.
13:55 < BarkingFish> twinkle down for anyone?
13:55 < Shearonink> I don;t know Fish, sorry, trying to run reflinks at the moment
13:55 < BarkingFish> some of my tagging is getting through, occasionally i'm getting API errors from it
13:56 * jc39 wonders if anyone here has ever been to the WMF headquarters
13:56 < diegogrez> it seems to be down, yes.
13:56 -!- Fae [~Fae@wikipedia/Fae] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:56 < BarkingFish> ok, cheers diegogrez
13:57 < Tony_Sidaway> One thing that intrigued me recently was that Zoltan had a VMS system with a guest account. I gave it a go, but he doesn't have the compilers and stuff. Essentially he hasn't bothered to update his hobbyist licence. So I obtained my own hobbyist licence and installed a VMS instance on my own system under the SIMH simulator.
13:57 < jc39> qu
13:57 -!- jc39 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]]
13:57 < Tony_Sidaway> Impressive. I used to love VMS.
13:57 < Shearonink> sheesh, the Bobby Jindal article is taking freaking *forever*.
13:58 < BarkingFish> Hm. WP:NOT (a directory)? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yogurty%27s_Froyo&redirect=no&rcid=521506351
13:58 < Tony_Sidaway> But in the end it felt like I was just wanking myself dry over the rotting corpse of DEC.
13:58 < BarkingFish> when this is finished, do you think it would be wise to move to [[List of Yogurty's Froyo branches in Canada]]? Or should we just whack it now?
13:58 < Shearonink> seems to get stuck at 24 refs (to be fixed)
13:59 * Shearonink faints...45 refs.
13:59 * BarkingFish feels like that article should be hit with something, but cannot decide what to hit it with.
13:59 -!- joedecker [~joedecker@wikipedia/Joe-Decker] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:00 -!- joedecker [~joedecker@wikipedia/Joe-Decker] has quit [Client Quit]
14:00 -!- Wehwalt [4462af34@wikipedia/Wehwalt] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:00 < diegogrez> {{db-inc}}
14:00 < BarkingFish> done already :)
14:01 < BarkingFish> thx diegogrez :D
14:01 -!- Fae [~Fae@wikipedia/Fae] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:01 -!- mh0 is now known as \h
14:01 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:02 < BarkingFish> I'm sitting here, pondering, with all the decision making skills of a sugar addict in a candy shop, and diegogrez knows precisely what to hit it with, without so much as a second though.
14:02 < BarkingFish> *thought
14:02 < BarkingFish> I think I need to get a mentor on board :)
14:02 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has quit [Quit: Later!]
14:03 -!- guillom is now known as basile
14:03 < Tony_Sidaway> My Polarhome connection (under nick Tony_Sidaway_ ) is logged in with the correct identification certificate, which is reassuring. The pem file is valid.
14:04 * Shearonink is happy, got 11.2 seconds on the Google Doodle...yay.
14:04 < foks> BOO
14:04 * foks only got 12.5!
14:04 < foks> :(
14:04 < mysterytrey> Google Doodle?
14:05 < Shearonink> http://www.google.com/doodles/hurdles-2012
14:05 < MartijnH> run mysterytrey
14:05 < Shearonink> verrrrrrrry addictive
14:05 < MartijnH> run like the wind!
14:05 < Shearonink> Run Forrest Run!
14:05 < mysterytrey> *clicks link*
14:05 < Tony_Sidaway> One day Google will put Angry Birds into its doodle and the entire world will grind to a halt.
14:06 < mysterytrey> 27.6!
14:06 < mysterytrey> 16.6!
14:07 < Frood> 9.7!
14:07 < mysterytrey> Ok I'm bored now.
14:07 < foks> Frood, pfft
14:08 < Tony_Sidaway> This is not my favourite. Looking at a cartoon bloke kneeling down and praying to a pair of imaginary waggling fingers is bizarre and surreal, but not paricularly entertaining.
14:08 < foks> you have to press left and right.
14:09 < foks> but I guess you're jokinh.
14:09 < foks> -h+g
14:09 < Tony_Sidaway> No I don't.
14:09 < MartijnH> next time it should be QWOP
14:09 < SoapX> wait, what?
14:09 < SoapX> the google doodle is a GAME?
14:09 < Tony_Sidaway> So I take it the Olympics are still on?
14:09 < SoapX> today?
14:09 < SoapX> i thought it was just a static image
14:09 * Shearonink confesses /me has never played Angry Birds.
14:09 < SoapX> it does nothing for me
14:10 < SoapX> i must be blocking it with something or my browser isnt compatible. LET ME GUESS, i have to get an HTML 5.0 browser
14:10 -!- Wiki13 [~Wiki13@wikimedia/Wiki13] has quit [Quit: While there's life, there's hope.]
14:10 < MartijnH> SoapX, works for me in lynx
14:10 < TeeTylerToe> 0.o
14:10 * diegogrez plays the Pacman doodle
14:10 < TeeTylerToe> I'm guessing not
14:10 < foks> Tony_Sidaway, 1. that wasn't funny the first time I told you they were
14:10 < foks> 2. I already said they were
14:11 < SoapX> ok thats impressive
14:11 < Tony_Sidaway> Have I missed the syncronized swimming? The only sport I really love, but mostly because it's an excuse for half the civilized world to stare at people's crotches without showing a smidgeon of embarrassment.
14:11 < SoapX> but that is not changing my mind about Flash being far superior to HTML 5.0 video formats
14:11 < SoapX> lol
14:11 < foks> flash is shit
14:11 < SoapX> oh come on
14:12 < foks> all flash is good for is bloating your processors
14:12 < Tony_Sidaway> foks: I missed your confirmation. It isn't intended to convey humour, so much as indifference.
14:12 < MartijnH> silverlight FTW!
14:12 < SoapX> Flash is great for games
14:12 < TeeTylerToe> can't html5 use the same video formats?
14:12 < foks> nope
14:12 < foks> html5 is better in every way
14:12 < TeeTylerToe> silverlight is just what a browser like lynx needs
14:12 < foks> Tony_Sidaway, I guessed
14:12 < SoapX> there was a flash game a year or so ago that was a full featured scrolling/zooming Mario platform game
14:12 < MartijnH> TeeTylerToe, sure, it just prints out the bytecode
14:12 < foks> I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to portray, but hoho, a Brit who doesn't like the Olympics, how lovely
14:13 < SoapX> nothing like that is ever going to come from animating fixed-size images in HTML5
14:13 < MartijnH> if you can't interpret that yourself, you really have no use for a computer
14:13 < Tony_Sidaway> I liked the Les Paul guitar, but my plucking skills let me down.
14:13 < SoapX> also it has sounds. Yes, sound effects in a game!
14:14 * Qcoder02 can't find the sort of games I'd like to play
14:14 < Qcoder02> I like puzzle games...
14:14 < Qcoder02> but no one written them for Flash
14:14 < Qcoder02> Or at least not interesting ones
14:14 < Qcoder02> OH and BTW does anynone know where to find dress up dools?
14:14 < Qcoder02> *dolls?
14:14 < Tony_Sidaway> My headphones are not on. I mostly wear them because it's easier than taking them off and going to hunt them when I need to hear something. Also they act as ear warmers in cold weather.
14:14 < SoapX> where can i go to find people who'll argue with me about flash vs javasript that wont find me annoying?
14:14 < Frood> what foks said
14:14 < Frood> Flash can die
14:15 < Frood> Adobe is trying to kill Flash
14:15 < SoapX> yes I know
14:15 < Frood> they already did on Android
14:15 < SoapX> that doesnt mean I agree with them
14:15 < foks> html54lyf
14:15 < Qcoder02> Apple doesn't like Flash
14:15 < haggis> foks: what song goes like this?
14:15 < SoapX> there's nothing that's going to replace Flash
14:15 < foks> haggis, a lot of them
14:15 < Frood> SoapX: html5...
14:15 < Frood> it can, has, and will
14:15 -!- DeltaQuad [~quassel@wikipedia/DeltaQuad] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:15 < Qcoder02> It's a shame YouTube cant move off Flash any time soon though
14:15 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: real ones? There used to be something called kiss that did computerised dolls.
14:15 < Qcoder02> OK
14:16 < foks> also, this is what hate looks like https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314450_10151303328799705_1356964128_n.jpg
14:16 < Tony_Sidaway> Search for "French kiss" and dolls and probably a good idea to put "safe search" on if you're at all squeamish.
14:16 < Frood> http://html5demos.com/
14:16 < SoapX> http://www.groovygirls.com/ , Qcoder02
14:16 < Qcoder02> The other thing I've never been able to find software wise is a program for taking a 3D mesh and allowing you to make a card model of that mesh
14:16 < Fluffernutter> foks that's vicious
14:16 < SoapX> a card model?
14:16 < foks> Fluffernutter, that is just disgusting
14:17 < Qcoder02> SoapX: Never built card models of things like Ships , or the Lincoln Memorial?
14:17 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: there are origami and paper plane designers.
14:17 < TeeTylerToe> a paper model created with a grid of paper
14:17 -!- TBloemink is now known as TB|Away
14:17 < IRWolfie-> is there a template to give a paid editor general advice on it?
14:17 < Tony_Sidaway> Sure there will be a paper model thing somewhere.
14:17 < Qcoder02> http://www.currell.net/models/mod_free.htm
14:18 < Qcoder02> Are some examples
14:18 < Qcoder02> But I never found software for taking 3D models and generating meshes
14:18 < SoapX> ok
14:18 -!- Fae [~Fae@wikipedia/Fae] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:18 < Qcoder02> I.E Ideally I;d like to be able to design my card model in Sketchup
14:18 < Qcoder02> take the mesh, and print up the card model...
14:19 < Qcoder02> This is something that should be possible (and probably) is...
14:19 < Qcoder02> but I've never been able to find the software to convert Meshes into card nets
14:19 < Tony_Sidaway> Adobe themselves are giving up on Flash. It will be allowed to die.
14:19 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:20 < Qcoder02> The other thing I was wanting a 'mesh' -> Card model for , was so that I can convert Freedoom maps into physical models for wargaming sims
14:20 < Qcoder02> Doom as a Tabletop you ask?
14:20 < Qcoder02> :)
14:20 < Qcoder02> Not that implausible... The rules are probably a variant on Games Workshop stuff
14:21 -!- James_F|Away is now known as James_F|Busy
14:21 < Tony_Sidaway> I wouldn't mind one of these games turning into a tabletop melee with little 3D figures running around being cute.
14:21 < Tony_Sidaway> That would be rather fun.
14:22 < Qcoder02> There are some Video game series that would probably work well as tabletops...
14:22 < Qcoder02> Halo might
14:22 < GorillaWarfare> I think we need to create "Category:Users who actually have some knowledge of copyright and aren't bumbling around like the rest of us"
14:23 < Qcoder02> but then practically any game series based on quasi-tactical stuff probably could be a tabletop
14:23 < Fluffernutter> GorillaWarfare, i thin kthat category would be populated entirely by Moonriddengirl
14:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Is it true that a lot of the Halo settings owe a lot to Iain M Banks' culture novels? I know nothing about Halo but quite a lot about Banks.
14:23 * GorillaWarfare hunts her down
14:23 < Qcoder02> Not sure
14:25 < Tony_Sidaway> Possibly my favourite game (one that I really enjoyed playing) was a children's game from EA in the early 1990s called Loom. You had to memorise spells, which were composed of musical phrases, in order to progress through the game. It used the same game engine as Monkey Island.
14:25 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:26 * Shearonink is onwdering who won the DeLorean for Ready PLayer One
14:26 < Tony_Sidaway> It was also beautifully drawn.
14:27 < Tony_Sidaway> "We can remotely look at a rock with a laser beam, vaporize it, and see what elements are in it."
14:27 < Tony_Sidaway> Also, he added, "We come in peace." :)
14:27 < SoapX> http://www.google.com/search?q=loom video game
14:27 < SoapX> hmm
14:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o RD] by ChanServ
14:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-ro RD] by RD
14:27 * Fluffernutter eyes RD
14:27 < SoapX> for being VGA, yeah thats pretty good
14:28 < SoapX> but the 90s were when everything was changing at record speed in the world of gaming
14:28 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
14:28 -!- flail [flail@ez0.staminus.org] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by Fluffernutter (flail)]
14:28 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o+b Fluffernutter *!*@ez0.staminus.org] by Fluffernutter
14:28 < SoapX> even just a few years later that would already be considered archaic
14:28 < RD> :O
14:28 < RD> opflail.
14:28 < SoapX> it doesnt say that it was EA, though
14:28 < SoapX> it was LucasArts
14:28 < MartijnH> ah, the good old SCUM engine
14:28 -!- ceradon [~ceradon@wikimedia/Ceradon] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:29 < MartijnH> I still have it installed
14:29 -!- Avruch [~Me@wikimedia/Nathan] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:29 < TeeTylerToe> ask me about loom
14:29 -!- Earwig|busy is now known as Earwig
14:30 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: yes, it was LucasArts. I forgot.
14:30 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
14:31 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: I played it on Amiga. For the time the graphics were rather good, and though dated it was clear that a lot of work had been put into them.
14:31 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@*staminus.org] by Fluffernutter
14:31 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-b *!*@ez0.staminus.org] by Fluffernutter
14:31 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
14:31 < TeeTylerToe> the cost of doing simple things, like creating a digital crate model for a video game has exploded
14:32 < Tony_Sidaway> It is a rather atmospheric game, and quite unique at the time. I don't think I've seen anything like it since, though I must admit I seldom look.
14:32 -!- jc39 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:32 < jc39> The Wikimedia Foundation has cancelled all WikiUSA events until further notice. We apologize for the inconvenience. < why?
14:32 < Fluffernutter> ...?
14:32 < TeeTylerToe> 0.o
14:32 < Tony_Sidaway> jc39: why cancel or why apologise? I'm going to guess the former.
14:32 < jc39> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Takes_America
14:33 < RD> 34
14:33 < RD> er
14:33 < RD> does that load right?
14:33 < RD> I get no skin
14:33 < jc39> RD: I see "34"
14:33 < RD> I meant the link
14:33 < Fluffernutter> no skin for me either
14:33 -!- mabdul|busy [~mabdul@wikipedia/mabdul] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:33 < RD> Other pages are fine
14:34 < TeeTylerToe> what are wikiUSA events?
14:34 < TeeTylerToe> were there any to cancel?
14:34 < jc39> yay back
14:34 < Fluffernutter> i'm guessing that's an error, jc39
14:34 * Fluffernutter is looking into it
14:34 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
14:35 < Fluffernutter> yes, it was vandalism
14:35 < Fluffernutter> clear your cache and refresh the page
14:35 < BarkingFish> That looks fine to me.
14:35 < Tony_Sidaway> My son the AI expert. I still remember when he hid behind me while I made Guybrush sneak past the pirate musicians in Monkey Island. He wasn't convinced they wouldn't eventually spot him and do something nasty.
14:35 < RD> yup
14:35 < RD> http://toolserver.org/~cbm/cgi-bin/queries/TemplateRevs?page=Wikipedia%3AWikipedia_Takes_America
14:35 < Tony_Sidaway> He's grown up a bit since then.
14:35 < RD> Good tool to find template vandalism
14:35 < RD> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AWikiUSA&diff=506294731
14:35 < TeeTylerToe> He's less afraid of pirate musicians?
14:36 -!- Aetitiae [~Aetitiae@unaffiliated/aetitiae] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
14:36 < BarkingFish> I didn't see any announcement like that when I went there. What was vandalized?
14:36 * RD has a link to that TemplateRevs tool on his sidebar for all pages
14:36 < RD> BarkingFish: Look at my link
14:36 < jc39> ja, guess so according to Fuffernutter.
14:36 < TeeTylerToe> what's not to fear about pirate musicians?
14:36 < Tony_Sidaway> TeeTylerToe: much less so! Even ghost pirate musicians (but our family name for Will Turner in Pirates of the Caribean is still "Guybrush")
14:37 < Fluffernutter> general rule: if you load a wikipedia page and see no skin (no sidebar, no search box, no editing tabs), it has almost certainly been vandalised
14:37 < RD> I wouldn't go by that
14:37 < RD> :P
14:37 < Frood> why is there no way to stop template vandalism like this?
14:37 < BarkingFish> Fluffernutter, I smell the same guy that was fucking around on enwp about 4 or 5 days ago, Earth Exploding Live. That looks like a sock.
14:37 < Frood> rather, why is nothing implemented?
14:37 < Fluffernutter> on it already, BarkingFish :)
14:38 < BarkingFish> That's exactly the way EEL's vandalism turned up...
14:38 < BarkingFish> ok, i will leave you to it
14:38 < SoapX> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiUSA&diff=prev&oldid=506294223
14:38 < SoapX> heheh
14:38 < Fluffernutter> Frood: i can't speak for anyone else, but *I* haven't implemented anything because I can't write edit filters. Not the slightest clue how.
14:38 < SoapX> looks like Pickbothmanlol to me .... buuuuuut it probably isnt
14:38 < Tony_Sidaway> The template namespace is small enough to have a dedicated vandalbot yelping every time it seems even a slightly unorthodox edit by a non-whitelisted user.
14:38 < jc39> lame
14:38 < TeeTylerToe> with the new flash update all audio is choppy
14:39 -!- James_F [~jdforrest@wikimedia/JamesF] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:40 < TeeTylerToe> A long time ago, I was in Burma. My friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never met anyone who had traded with him. One day I saw a child playing
14:40 < TeeTylerToe> with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing the stones away.
14:40 -!- James_F_ [~jdforrest@wikimedia/JamesF] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:41 < Tony_Sidaway> The only game I've ever bothered to play to the end are Loom, Monkey Island (the first of the series) and Quake solo. Having learned to play the latter, which is a rather vast game, I don't see the point in learning any more ever. If I wanted to game again I'd just install Quake.
14:41 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:41 -!- jc39 is now known as New_York_City
14:41 < Tony_Sidaway> Also, the Quake monsters are fun to trick.
14:42 < Brooke> Hello.
14:42 < Brooke> I'm here.
14:42 < Tony_Sidaway> They get very mad every easily and you can make them fight one another.
14:42 < Fluffernutter> Tony_Sidaway, that would be useful, if we got a ping whenever a template is changed in an unusual manner. Unfortunately I have no idea how to implement that
14:42 -!- James_F|Busy [~jdforrest@wikimedia/JamesF] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:42 < TeeTylerToe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CqpGfWrmc4#t=3m32s
14:42 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
14:43 < jorm> greetings, figments!
14:43 < Tony_Sidaway> Fluffernutter: it isn't that difficult. You could make a proposal in the bot page and see if anybody is interested.
14:43 -!- russavia [~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~]
14:43 -!- James_F [~jdforrest@wikimedia/JamesF] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:43 -!- James_F_ is now known as James_F
14:44 -!- Frood [~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
14:44 < Tony_Sidaway> The main cost is in constructing the whitelist. Few people randomly edit templates, so you would expect a large whitelist and treat almost any other edit as potentially suspicious.
14:44 < TeeTylerToe> it seems like flash in firefox is uneffected
14:45 -!- New_York_City is now known as jc39
14:46 < Tony_Sidaway> Not that it takes long for template vandalism to get spotted. It shows up all over the place so a bot is of limited use here.
14:46 < SoapX> how about just whitelisting everyone?
14:47 < SoapX> well ...
14:47 < SoapX> everyone who';s autoconfirmed, maybe
14:47 -!- LikeLakers2-1 [~LikeLaker@173.171.64.254] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:47 -!- LikeLakers2-1 [~LikeLaker@173.171.64.254] has quit [Changing host]
14:47 -!- LikeLakers2-1 [~LikeLaker@wikipedia/LikeLakers2] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:47 < SoapX> or is even that too huge?
14:47 -!- bobrayner_ [4e93208e@wikipedia/bobrayner] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:47 < Isarra> Yes.
14:47 < mysterytrey> Autoconfirmed is too huge.
14:47 < SoapX> no, a bot is definitely good
14:47 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: autoconfirmed is too low a bar for template tinkerers.
14:47 < SoapX> yes, template vandalism gets spotted quickly, but it's hard to find *where* it is unless youre good with templates
14:48 < SoapX> ok, how about whitelisting only people with >1000 edits?
14:48 < SoapX> there'd be a lot of false positives, but hopefully not too many
14:48 -!- DeltaQuad [~quassel@wikipedia/DeltaQuad] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:48 < jc39> oh shit
14:48 < jc39> that asshole is on ED
14:48 < TeeTylerToe> why not have template edits suggested in talk and implemented by people with elevated privledges
14:48 < Tony_Sidaway> SoapX: okay it does sound like you need to bring this to the attention of the bot people. There are lots of bots around that could potentially cover this beat, if only the operators were aware of the need.
14:48 < jc39> and they have a file of dox
14:48 -!- Topher385 [629dc974@wikipedia/Topher385] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:48 < jc39> :(
14:49 -!- Frood [~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:49 < SoapX> me??
14:49 < Tony_Sidaway> TeeTylerToe: goes against the wiki principles.
14:49 < mysterytrey> There really isn't that many recent changes in the template namespace. Do we need a whitelist at all?
14:49 < SoapX> I wouldmnt know what to do
14:49 -!- LikeLakers2 [~LikeLaker@wikipedia/LikeLakers2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:49 -!- DeltaQuad is now known as DQ|away
14:50 -!- LikeLakers2-1 is now known as LikeLakers2
14:50 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: if somebody spots template vandalism, and they know to look in recent changes for template namespace, then most likely that will resolve the issue very quickly.
14:50 < Tony_Sidaway> SO perhaps it's just a matter of making that bit of knowledge available widely.
14:50 < SoapX> true
14:51 -!- Gfoley4 [~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:51 < mysterytrey> Actually, we need to have it set up to purge automatically after saving in template namespace. Because if the template is purged hours after being vandalized, were kinda-screwed.
14:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Bots are very useful though. How about a web page where you report suspected template vandlism? The bot can investigate and give a list of likely sources of the problem.
14:52 < bobrayner_> maybe I've missed the start of this conversation... but after the last outburst I suggested that we consider fully protecting templates with more than 10000 transclusions or so.
14:52 < Isarra> I thought that was standard practice.
14:52 < bobrayner_> Of course there could be exceptions but most highly-transcluded templates have surprisingly little edit history after a burst of edits in the first week, so it's not as though protection would prevent huge volumes of vital positive changes ;-)
14:53 < Tony_Sidaway> bobrayner_: also a possible approach. ANd yes, it's a common solution.
14:53 < Fluffernutter> Isarra, this is wikipedia. Nothing can be standard practice without a significant cohort of people yelling violently about how it's ALL WRONG
14:53 < jorm> god. my day is going to be all about "wikipediaredefined", isn't it?
14:53 < Tony_Sidaway> There are some templates that are _supposed_ to be changed a lot, but they are mostly in project space and are actively curated.
14:54 < Isarra> >.<
14:54 < Fluffernutter> jorm: but it's so pretty! so full of misunderstanding in spots, too, but so pretty, and some really good ideas!
14:54 < mysterytrey> Isarra: What did you think is standard practice?
14:54 < jorm> what good ideas?
14:54 < Isarra> Protecting widely used templates.
14:54 < SigmaWP> jorm: Make Template space semi'd
14:54 < jorm> i was talking to fluffernutter.
14:55 < jorm> and Template: being semi-protected seems like a no-brainer to me.
14:55 < Isarra> Poor templates.
14:55 -!- TB|Away [~TB@wikimedia/tbloemink] has quit [Quit: I'll remember this.]
14:55 -!- Matthew_ [~matthewrb@wikipedia/matthewrbowker] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:55 -!- Frood [~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
14:55 < Isarra> So much attention, and yet so little love.
14:55 -!- SigmaWP is now known as Finkling
14:55 < Gfoley4> most things above 1,000 transclucions are full-protected I believe
14:55 * Isarra hugs the templates.
14:55 * Finkling finkles Gfoley4 backward
14:55 < Fluffernutter> jorm: Well, I like their reimagined icons and main page design. I LOVE the colored syntax in the "code" edit view.
14:55 < SoapX> new users can create templates
14:56 < TeeTylerToe> youtube's been slow recently
14:56 -!- mabdul|busy [~mabdul@wikipedia/mabdul] has quit []
14:56 * Fluffernutter would murder a baby to get colored syntax
14:56 < mysterytrey> ...
14:56 < mysterytrey> overkill
14:56 < Tony_Sidaway> Wikipedia as an institution is, in my experience, surprisingly good at hitting optimal solutions. I once went through a campaign of challenging long term semiprotections. I don't regret doing that, it's part of being a Wikipedian, but it was surprising how many of the semis turned out to be justified by subsequent events.
14:56 < jorm> there's so many problems with their main page design. they take the most important part of it - language selection - and bury it.
14:56 < mysterytrey> Let's get rid of the main page.
14:56 < Fluffernutter> jorm: the language selection is right in the drop-down!
14:57 < Matthew_> Fluffernutter: You have Windows?
14:57 -!- bobrayner_ [4e93208e@wikipedia/bobrayner] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:57 < jorm> wait. we're talking about two different things.
14:57 < jorm> i'm thinking of www.wikipedia.org
14:57 < Fluffernutter> so am I? I think?
14:57 < Fluffernutter> http://www.wikipediaredefined.com/img/15.png <--that, right?
14:57 < jorm> anyways. it's typical of firms like this in that they don't really do research about the product.
14:57 < Tony_Sidaway> Fluffernutter: coloured syntax coding is my pet hate. It makes pages illegible to me.
14:57 < jorm> yeah. that'.
14:58 < Finkling> Tony_Sidaway: You suck
14:58 < Finkling> Do you program stuff?
14:58 < jorm> so, what about that color band says "this changes the language" ?
14:58 < Isarra> What Finkling said.
14:58 < Tony_Sidaway> Finkling: yes, for the past forty years I've programmed stuff.
14:58 -!- bobrayner [4e93208e@wikipedia/bobrayner] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:58 < jorm> if you don't know english, how do you know to pull down the language selector drop down?
14:58 < Fluffernutter> jorm: the further you read down the page the more apparent it becomes that they don't quite understand how wikipedia functions. But the pretty! (the color band, while pretty, is totally opaque and is something a design studio would come up with before someone realized that no one would think to hover over the colors)
14:58 < Finkling> Tony_Sidaway: If you program stuff how do you hate syntax highlighting
14:59 < jorm> you can't hover on tablets.
14:59 < Tony_Sidaway> Finkling: I told you. It makes the page illegible to me.
14:59 < jorm> etc, etc,.
14:59 -!- Frood [~Frood@50-83-24-112.client.mchsi.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:59 -!- Frood [~Frood@50-83-24-112.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Changing host]
14:59 -!- Frood [~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:59 < Finkling> Tony_Sidaway: How the hell do you figure that out
14:59 < Fluffernutter> jorm: also that (I discovered this the other night while experimenting with popups on my tablet)
14:59 < Tony_Sidaway> Finkling: I try to read the page and fail.
14:59 < Tony_Sidaway> I can't work out what the words or even the individual letters say.
14:59 < Fluffernutter> jorm: but i really do think the main landing page is cluttered and outdated and could do with a shine-up. Then again, i can't remember the last time I went to that page, so it's not like its clutter is any skin off my nose
15:00 < jorm> designing for touch interfaces is pretty much the paramount thing i've got the design team thinking like.
15:00 < SoapX> ok
15:00 < jorm> we're wanting to redo that page but we're waiting on the universal language selector to be finished.
15:00 < Isarra> Whoever designed this wikipediaredefined site clearly never mastered relative sizing.
15:00 < SoapX> http://www.wikipediaredefined.com/ is the new main page?
15:00 < Isarra> Or spacing.
15:01 < Isarra> Or good font selection.
15:01 < jorm> i also can't understand why they decided to throw away EVERYTHING that is good about our branding.
15:01 < Isarra> Or the use of colour.
15:01 < Fluffernutter> jorm: i was disproportionalte annoyed with them when i realized that they had no idea that "history" was an important concept to the way wikis work, and it doesn't mean anything like they think it means
15:01 < jorm> which is the whole "W" glyph, and the wordmark.
15:01 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:01 * Isarra clutches her eyes and whimpers.
15:01 < Tony_Sidaway> Perhaps if somebody wants to do syntax highlighting correctly, they can look at the algol 60 report for some ideas. There is no colour in that document but it does a splendid job of exploring the possibilities of typographic highlighting.
15:01 < jorm> yes. the history thing is where i tossed them completely in the bin.
15:01 < SoapX> it doesnt seem lik e they have anything going
15:02 < jorm> we have severe limitations when it comes to typography in our designs.
15:02 < SoapX> well to be fair most people probably dont ever read the histories of articles
15:02 < SoapX> users and editors are two different groups of people
15:02 < Fluffernutter> SoapX: there's something to be said for smoothing things out, de-cluttering, etc. There's very little to be said for their involved bits - the new "functions", etc
15:02 < jorm> mostly in that we have to design for *everyone*, so we can't just tell dyslexics to sit and spin.
15:02 -!- The_Blade [~chatzilla@ool-18ba3b3e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:02 -!- The_Blade [~chatzilla@ool-18ba3b3e.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host]
15:02 -!- The_Blade [~chatzilla@wikipedia/The-Blade-of-the-Northern-Lights] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:02 < mysterytrey> Why is aft5 on justin beiber? Seriously, the only stuff thats on their is never good. "ok i came here because i hate what's going on between him and drake bell p.s.im on drake's side not justin's!"
15:02 < Tony_Sidaway> jorm: or colour-blind, I hope.
15:03 < SoapX> there doesnt seem to be a demo of the http://www.wikipediaredefined.com/ site
15:03 < SoapX> its just a list of ideas
15:03 < Fluffernutter> mmhm
15:03 < Fluffernutter> they're hoping to get critical mass via email, i guess
15:03 < SoapX> i guess it wouldnt be technologically feasible to make a demo
15:03 < Fluffernutter> (and hoping the WMF calls them up and hires them...)
15:03 < SoapX> for money? ha!
15:03 < jc39> "GAY GAY GAY GAY"
15:03 -!- YE is now known as YE|AFK
15:04 < jc39> "gayyyyyy" etc.
15:04 < Tony_Sidaway> I've never really investigated why colour highlighting is so sucky for me. Possibly the implementation is too patchy in contrast (many colours are too close together in my visual palette for me to gain good contrast).
15:04 < SoapX> they probably think that Wikipedia looks this way because we have bad web designers
15:04 < jorm> color-blindness is a big thing for me to think about.
15:04 < jorm> design firms don't expect us to call them up.
15:05 < Finkling> SoapX: That "add article" button is going to be a nightmare
15:05 < jorm> they do things like this to pad out their portfolios.
15:05 < jorm> we get 3 or 4 things like this a year.
15:05 < jorm> okay. hold on a second.
15:05 < Tony_Sidaway> jorm: the good news is that there are some algorithms that do a pretty good job of simulating colour blindness. You can look at your website as 10% of the male population sees it.
15:05 < SoapX> they mispelled "wikiquotes"
15:05 < jorm> I think I can say, unequivacably, as a representative of the Foundation, that wikipediaredefined is NOT going to be the future.
15:05 < jorm> It just isn't.
15:05 < Fluffernutter> heh
15:05 < SoapX> cool
15:05 * Isarra hugs jorm.
15:06 < Finkling> Syntax highlighting yay
15:06 < Fluffernutter> yay syntax highlighting. jorm, any chance we coudl get that? Just that?
15:06 < jorm> there are some interesting ideas with regards to how they curate photos (they don't really touch on it much) and some of their data maps are neat, but even that stuff will have to wait for wikidata to happen.
15:06 < jorm> i think it already exists in some extensions.
15:06 < Fluffernutter> ooh, really?
15:06 * Fluffernutter must go look
15:06 * foks "rebranded" Wikipedia for schoolwork once.
15:06 < Tony_Sidaway> jorm: well they can take the content and present it however they like. :)
15:06 < Finkling> We should enable them on enwp
15:06 < SoapX> i dont see an "add article" button
15:06 < mysterytrey> "I am confused because I didn't edit Wikipedia today." --Moodbar dashboard. Aren't we all?
15:06 < foks> It was shit, though, so I don't expect a job with jorm
15:06 < foks> :3
15:07 -!- bobrayner [4e93208e@wikipedia/bobrayner] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:07 < jorm> but i'm gonna suggest that the foundation will expend zero resources on building a syntax highlighter, with all our visual editor work.
15:07 < Fluffernutter> :(
15:07 * foks will need convinced on a visual editor, still
15:08 < jorm> if you can convince james forrester that it's a must-have, it might go into the roadmap.
15:08 < SoapX> wikEd is sort of a syntax highlight editor
15:08 < Finkling> SoapX: It's too bulky
15:08 < Tony_Sidaway> By the way has anybody else commented on the really poor layout and presentation of the home page of the website http://www.wikipediaredefined.com/ ?
15:08 -!- closedmouth [mouthy@wikipedia/closedmouth] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:08 < SoapX> it at least grays out the "code" parts of the text so you can just read the literal text
15:08 < Finkling> True
15:08 < IRWolfie-> got a sense of deja vu
15:08 < Tony_Sidaway> I presume these are the chaps who want to make Wikipedia better.
15:08 < James_F> Whut?
15:08 < Tony_Sidaway> Their grammar is pretty awful.
15:08 < jorm> syntax highlighting in the visual editor.
15:09 < jorm> they're lithuanian.
15:09 < James_F> Oh, a syntax-highlighter for non-visual editor?
15:09 < SoapX> i use WikEd
15:09 < Fluffernutter> James_F: yes pleeeease
15:09 < jorm> which is funny, since their design is so us-centric.
15:09 -!- closedmouth [mouthy@wikipedia/closedmouth] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:09 < Shearonink> they think WP pays the big bucks
15:09 < James_F> Fluffernutter: If you've been an editor for as long as I have, the syntax-highlight happens automatically as a form of synathesia.
15:09 < SoapX> maybe Lithuania loves the USA
15:09 < foks> Tony_Sidaway, they're Italian
15:09 < SoapX> they could be like Poland
15:09 < jorm> "rebranding" wikipedia is easy. hell. my current Athena mocks do that.
15:10 < foks> or lithuanian
15:10 < James_F> foks: .lt is Lithuania, not .it.
15:10 < foks> my bad
15:10 < Fluffernutter> James_F: alas it does not for me. I have a terrible time picking out refs in giant text chunks and stuff
15:10 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh I just read that website.
15:10 < foks> I saw ".it". I'M TIRED.
15:10 < foks> >:(
15:10 < Tony_Sidaway> I didn't realise you were talking about a _satire_.
15:10 < James_F> foks: So, again, go to bed already. :-)
15:10 < foks> no
15:10 < jorm> heh.
15:10 < foks> :3
15:10 < SoapX> it is not a satire
15:10 < Fluffernutter> oh, WikiEd is rather decent. Clunky, but hey, colors!
15:10 < SoapX> theyre 100% serious
15:10 < foks> It's not a satire, it's a rebranding project by a design company
15:10 < foks> to pad out a portfolio
15:10 < Tony_Sidaway> Well the website I just linked to is a satire. Is it the wrong website?
15:10 < jorm> during my AMA, i got the most upvotes for a comment about conservapedia.
15:10 * James_F glares at foks for waiting 'til he was out of arm's reach to express his doubts about VisualEditor.
15:10 < foks> design people do this a hell of a lot
15:11 < Tony_Sidaway> Yes, it's ripe for satire.
15:11 < jorm> "What do you think about Conservapedia?" "Well, I like fantasy and fiction a lot, so I guess it's okay."
15:11 < foks> Tony_Sidaway, it is a design project, not a satire.
15:11 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
15:11 < foks> As I say. Indie design people "rebrand" websites a lot to show what they can do
15:11 < Tony_Sidaway> The use of colour on that homepage is nothing short of appalling.
15:11 * Fluffernutter rebrands foks
15:12 < foks> I quite like it.
15:12 * Isarra recolours foks.
15:12 < foks> But hey, Tony, you're a hard man to please
15:12 < jorm> i had expected my day to be about the Signpost editorial, which suggests changes significantly more radical than these guys.
15:12 -!- Magog_the_Ogre [~Magog_the@wikipedia/Magog-the-Ogre] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:12 < jorm> but nooooo. i gotta walk people back from THAT ledge.
15:12 < Fluffernutter> ooh, is there an editorial for me to get angry about?
15:12 < jorm> yes. today's signpost.
15:12 < jorm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-08-06/Op-ed
15:12 * Fluffernutter gets tar and feathers, reads
15:13 < The_Blade> Now you've got me looking too...
15:13 -!- Anurag2k12 [~Anurag2k1@bas2-cooksville01-1088750716.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:13 * Shearonink reads too
15:13 < jc39> notifications looks a bit facebook-y
15:13 < foks> What, Echo?
15:13 < jc39> Flow looks a bit Wikia-y
15:13 < Tony_Sidaway> "Quote serves as a felt pen." This isn't really good English. A "felt pen" sounds like something you might find in your rectum. The term is "felt tip" or "felt tip pen".
15:13 < foks> Echo is the best thing about the new thing
15:14 < foks> Again, Tony, Lithuania
15:14 < Fluffernutter> I...do not want to kill jorm after reading that. Actually, I sort of want to hug him.
15:14 -!- ceradon [~ceradon@wikimedia/Ceradon] has quit [Quit: *poof*]
15:15 < Tony_Sidaway> foks: does that excuse their use of an initial I that looks like a latin J?
15:15 < jorm> whoever MER-C is, they didn't really pay attention to what i've been doing the past year.
15:15 < Fluffernutter> jorm: my biggest question about mobile is when there's going to be built-in editing in the app
15:15 < foks> Tony_Sidaway, that, I'll give you
15:15 < jorm> not for a long time.
15:15 < jorm> we want to get contributions into mobile asap, but it's very difficult.
15:15 < jorm> and there's not really a lot of use trying to do so until the VE is done.
15:16 < jorm> now. that SAID.
15:16 < jorm> if we can get the mobile "skin" into core (which will serve as the starting point for athena), we'll get that running on tablets. which then increases the pressure to just have the current editor there.
15:16 < James_F> foks: Clearly I need to come to an ABZ meetup and bully you into agreeing that VE is great. :-)
15:17 < foks> I'm not the target of the VE.
15:17 < Tony_Sidaway> jorm: to clarify, when you say "VE" you refer to a project to construct a Visual Editor ? Did I guess correctly?
15:17 < foks> New users are.
15:17 < James_F> foks: No, all users are.
15:17 < jorm> yes.
15:17 < foks> Tony_Sidaway, he's already said that!
15:17 < foks> :P
15:17 < jorm> the visual editor has a working prototype, but it's a long way from baked.
15:17 < jorm> you'll see echo and flow before then.
15:17 < jorm> actually.
15:17 < Tony_Sidaway> foks: I've no doubt he has.
15:17 < foks> James_F, then that's a little weird.
15:18 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
15:18 < jorm> you'll see Page Curation first - like, in a week - and then Echo, and then Flow.
15:18 < James_F> foks: Why?
15:18 < foks> VE I'll probably dislike, because (gasp) I actually like editing with the markup
15:18 < Tony_Sidaway> Use of abbreviations is tempting but seldom useful.
15:18 < jorm> depending on how bored I get in hawaii, i might build a skin, too.
15:18 < Isarra> VE will never be able to support everything that can be done with plain wikitext, though. What do you intend to do about that, limit what all experienced users can do for the sake of simplicity?
15:18 < foks> The rest of the features, don't get me wrong, look awesome.
15:18 < jorm> wikitext is never going away.
15:18 < James_F> foks: Oh, there's nothing wrong with editing with wikitext.
15:18 < jorm> there will always be a "wikitext" mode.
15:18 < Finkling> Syntax highlighting!
15:18 < Fluffernutter> Isarra: i always sort of assumed there would be an ability for us curmudgeons to opt back into wikitext
15:18 < The_Blade> I'm finally trying out the NewPagesFeed now... it looks like a great start.
15:18 < Fluffernutter> ah, yes
15:18 -!- Finkling [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Syntax highlighting FTW]
15:18 < James_F> jorm: Don't make promises that the community might not want to keep. :-)
15:18 < foks> But please allow the merging of article pages with flow on them
15:19 < Isarra> Fluffernutter: That was the impression I was getting from what jorm said, too.
15:19 < foks> as in, the thing that LQT doesn't let you do
15:19 < jorm> The_Blade: wait until you see curation toolbar.
15:19 < James_F> foks: Erm. Flow is for user talk pages only.
15:19 < The_Blade> I eagerly await it.
15:19 < James_F> foks: It won't ever occur on articles.
15:19 < jorm> i suppose you can play with it now, if you want.
15:19 < foks> James_F, flow isn't for regular talk pages?
15:19 * Fluffernutter goes with the flow
15:19 < Isarra> But if you can switch between modes, then you won't be able to do as much as you could otherwise simply because atomation results in messier code with these things...
15:19 < jorm> sec. lemme find you an url.
15:19 -!- RudyValencia [~me@unaffiliated/rudyvalencia] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
15:19 < Tony_Sidaway> Why exactly did we move away from editing formats like LATeX?
15:19 < James_F> foks: No. See [[mw:Flow]].
15:19 < James_F> Tony_Sidaway: "We"?
15:19 < foks> That's a bit shit then
15:19 * foks sighs
15:20 < foks> I like my userpage dammit
15:20 < jorm> go here: http://ee-prototype.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page
15:20 < jorm> wait. shit.
15:20 * foks isn't being difficult, honest
15:20 < jorm> you need to be autoconfirmed i think.
15:20 < James_F> foks: If you want Flow to replace LQT, you need to find a whole lot of money for engineers.
15:20 < jorm> Flow is not for regular talk pages.
15:20 < foks> I want LQT to be destroyed with a nuclear weapom
15:20 < foks> * n
15:20 < James_F> s/replace/do all the things that LQT does and more/
15:20 < Isarra> But LQT should still die.
15:20 < foks> but whatever
15:20 < Fluffernutter> hm, my SUL no worky on the labs?
15:20 < James_F> foks: You just really hate all my software, right?
15:20 -!- jc39 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]]
15:20 < jorm> though, in the future, regular talk pages may have a similar system that then feeds *into* flow.
15:20 < foks> this conversation is moving way too fast for me
15:20 < jorm> the idea of Flow is that you have a "homepage"
15:21 < foks> I'm out
15:21 -!- Headbomb [~chatzilla@Wikipedia/Headbomb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:21 < James_F> Fluffernutter: No, labs is explicitly outside of the SUL cluster.
15:21 < jorm> a central feed for all the conversations that you are engaged in.
15:21 < James_F> foks: Aww. Bye.
15:21 < foks> I'll still be here.
15:21 < foks> just not typing.
15:21 < foks> 'cos fast.
15:21 < jorm> the feed will have your talk conversations, but also can serve as a watchlist (where you can view diffs in-line)
15:21 -!- Headbomb [~chatzilla@Wikipedia/Headbomb] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:21 -!- Headbomb [~chatzilla@Wikipedia/Headbomb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:21 < Shearonink> homepage...sounds like timeline
15:21 < foks> sounds like profiles
15:22 < foks> which is good
15:22 < foks> nine thumbs up
15:22 < jorm> "Seven edits to [[Barack Obama]] since your last visit" and then click to open them, and then view individual diffs, etc.
15:22 < Fluffernutter> (is it unusual of me that the first thing I do when I sign up for a new site is see what's available in Preferences?)
15:22 < Tony_Sidaway> James_F: the great and blessed grace of textual formats is that you can easily implement them with macros. The secondary grace is that you can get at them with sensible software techniques that are well understood. None of this is true of the awfulness that is presentation-based editing.
15:22 < Isarra> You actually have to visit pages?
15:22 < Isarra> Ewww.
15:22 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:22 < foks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdJtb1RdkBY
15:22 * Isarra has possibly been using popups too long.
15:22 < foks> I love popups
15:22 < jorm> well, if you get on that labs site, go to Special:NewPagesFeed
15:22 -!- Headbomb [~chatzilla@Wikipedia/Headbomb] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:22 < James_F> Tony_Sidaway: You didn't answer my question, however. :-)
15:22 < foks> and popups should not die
15:23 < Isarra> Most certainly not.
15:23 < foks> they aren't being killed though
15:23 < foks> so
15:23 < Isarra> Which is good.
15:23 -!- DQ|away is now known as DeltaQuad
15:23 < jorm> and the "review" buttons. they may be greyed out, in which case you need to be autoconfirmed. but i think we tried to remove that requirement.
15:23 < Tony_Sidaway> James_F: "we" being the entire civilised world, sadly.
15:23 < Tony_Sidaway> If you're holding out, great!
15:24 < Tony_Sidaway> I could show up to your fort one day and add my pea shooter to our rerun of the Alamo.
15:24 < Isarra> Hmm...
15:24 < jorm> the curation toolbar will be seriously bad-ass when we get keyboard commands into it.
15:24 -!- Gfoley4 [~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4] has quit [Quit: Too many trolls in here.]
15:24 -!- Fluffernutter [Fluffernut@wikipedia/Fluffernutter] has quit [Quit: hometime]
15:24 < Isarra> php is weird.
15:24 < Tony_Sidaway> Isarra: you noticed.
15:24 < Isarra> jorm: Is it going to have a consistent appearance with other stuff?
15:24 < foks> Keyboard controls are a bit ick for me, someone who typos a LOT
15:24 < foks> :D
15:25 < jorm> how do you mean?
15:25 < jorm> you mean the Agora initative?
15:25 < Isarra> foks: I always disable them for exactly that reason.
15:25 < foks> I'll probably end up deleting everything by accidentally hitting "D"
15:25 < Isarra> jorm: Sure, why not.
15:25 < jorm> yeah, we're working on a consistant look and feel.
15:25 < jorm> curation is the first part of that.
15:25 < Isarra> It's not currently part of it, is it?
15:25 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:26 < mysterytrey> Huggle keyboard shortcuts scare me.
15:26 * foks still uses monobook, but doesn't hold out a lot of hope for that to be the "look and feel"
15:26 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has quit [Client Quit]
15:26 < Isarra> Apparently the function key is a shortcut to request page protection in huggle.
15:27 < Tony_Sidaway> jorm: is there yet a consistent and computer-readable grammar for wikitext?
15:27 < foks> The... function key?
15:27 < jorm> not that i am aware of, tony.
15:27 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:27 < Isarra> Whenever I bump it huggle things I requested three or four page protections. >.<
15:27 < Isarra> thinks
15:27 < The_Blade> The most fun toy to use is the Nuke button.
15:28 < foks> I've only ever used that once
15:28 < foks> And I fucked it up
15:28 < foks> so
15:28 < The_Blade> I've used it three times, once three days after becoming an admin.
15:28 < Tony_Sidaway> jorm: I'm sure you appreciate how much freedom such a grammar would give to so many projects. Being able to understand the wikitext is very difficult for external apps.
15:28 < The_Blade> And the other two to zap a couple Dolovis sockpuppets who created a ton of disruptive redirects.
15:28 < jorm> okay. i'm told that you don't need to be autoconfirmed on ee-prototype to use the curation toolbar now.
15:28 < James_F> Tony_Sidaway: See what the Parsoid project are doing - https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid
15:28 < Tony_Sidaway> James_F: thanks.
15:29 < Isarra> I've tried to nuke something and caused an entire wiki to go down once.
15:29 < jorm> yeah. james_f is your goto guy for questions about that.
15:29 < foks> What is "a grammar"?
15:29 < Isarra> But I think that was a the server is a pile of fail problem more than anything else.
15:29 < jorm> a formal language that obeys rules, in this case.
15:29 < jorm> wikitext doesn't have one.
15:29 < Tony_Sidaway> James_F: but hey, MI5 is holding out for TeX? Who knew?
15:29 < James_F> foks: A formal, computer-readable definition of wikitext in such a way that it can be parsed consistently by multiple implementations. Right now, it's theoretical.
15:29 < jorm> the best example are templates that open and close tables.
15:30 * foks whines at the jargon
15:30 < Qcoder02> Hi James_F
15:30 < jorm> {{table_open}} {{table_row }} {{table_row}} {{table_close}}
15:30 < jorm> that's a nightmare for machines to parse.
15:30 < Qcoder02> James_F: What's your FO spidey sense saying about Syria?
15:30 < foks> so like {{col begin}} {{col 2}} {{col end}} or something
15:30 < foks> ?
15:30 < Qcoder02> Assad going to be out by the end of the year?
15:30 < James_F> foks: Go study CompSci at university. After 3 years it'll be sort-of understandable.
15:30 < foks> No thanks.
15:31 < foks> :3
15:31 < James_F> Qcoder02: Yes, followed by several months of civil war.
15:31 < James_F> foks: Then don't complain. :-)
15:31 < Isarra> Having studied CS, I beg to differ.
15:31 < foks> Qcoder02, bringing up Syria in a conversation about Wikipedia redesigns?
15:31 < foks> that's brave
15:31 < Qcoder02> I only noticed James_F had shown up :)
15:31 * James_F grins.
15:31 < Isarra> You can do CS and completely avoid anything useful.
15:31 < Tony_Sidaway> James_F: years. Syria will probably burn.
15:31 < James_F> Isarra: Oh, sure, but I meant CS not IT.
15:32 < Qcoder02> and James_F seems to be a semi-expert on Foreign matters
15:32 < Isarra> James_F: It was called CS.
15:32 < James_F> Isarra: If you've not done Compiler Design, you've not done CS, you've just been lied to by your educational institution.
15:32 < Isarra> The fact that the instructors wanted to talk about cats more than computers, on the other hand...
15:32 < Tony_Sidaway> It's got too many obstreporous neighbours to go quietly.
15:32 < James_F> Isarra: Same thing with CPU design.
15:32 < James_F> Anyway.
15:32 < Qcoder02> I did Computing, and I did some theroetical stuff
15:32 < James_F> Back to jorm and design.
15:32 < Isarra> Crappier institutions don't mandate it.
15:32 < Isarra> It's adorable.
15:33 < Isarra> Personally I just didn't get very far.
15:33 < Qcoder02> I actually elected to doi the compiler design module
15:33 < Qcoder02> ;)
15:33 < Qcoder02> *do
15:33 < Qcoder02> There was also going to be a course on text processing , but it never ran
15:33 < Isarra> Probably for the best. O_o
15:33 -!- Susuke_Tamagawa [~Lisa_Logg@c-98-204-30-21.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: wasn't UNIX smuggled in as a project to process text? :)
15:34 < Qcoder02> ROFL
15:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Eventually paid off, too.
15:34 < Qcoder02> I'm still looking for a single floppy Unix system
15:35 < franny> *Uɴɪx. One of its killer features, of course, was small caps.
15:35 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: I used to use one of those to boot my OpenBSD upgrades until recently.
15:35 < Fasttimes68> sweet. my public libaray has almost the entire national geograpic library online
15:35 < Fasttimes68> thats a whole lotta naked african boobie
15:36 < Qcoder02> The reason i was wanting a single floppy Unix
15:36 < lexein> In re conversation a while ago about template vandalism - I'd be in favor of an RfC and guideline to always apply full protection to all templates in use at more than, say, 100 articles. Fluffernutter? RD?
15:36 < Qcoder02> was so I could setup some old hardwrae to do BOINC
15:36 < Qcoder02> I have a network port on it
15:36 < Qcoder02> So I could do a remote install, but the CD drive bust..
15:36 -!- The_Blade [~chatzilla@wikipedia/The-Blade-of-the-Northern-Lights] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:36 < Isarra> lexein: 100 is pretty common, and not that big of a strain on the servers to revert and purge.
15:37 < Qcoder02> Fasttimes68: When did NG Start?
15:37 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: not sure they would fit your requirements, but are you aware of tomsrtbt and similar projects?
15:37 < Fasttimes68> 1888
15:37 < Qcoder02> And how many old NG are now copyright free?
15:38 < Qcoder02> Wikisource could do with having old NG's :)
15:38 < lexein> Isarra I'm also thinking of the risk of actually passing on mallware - full protection against all edits without permission seems like it would protect against mailware. Unless there's something I don't understand...
15:38 < Qcoder02> Tony_Sidawat: Can they boot to a point where they can run console based C code?
15:38 < Tony_Sidaway> Sorry what is NG? I'm not only colourblind but also hopeless at guessing what random bits of initials mean.
15:38 * lexein mallware == malware
15:38 < Isarra> What has mallware got to do with it?
15:39 * lexein chuckles stupidly to self
15:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> whats love has got to do got to do with it?
15:39 < lexein> Isarra - I was thinking of Javascript exploits
15:39 < BarkingFish> mallware = malicious software that automatically reroutes your internet connection to your local mall's website
15:39 < Qcoder02> NG= National Geographic
15:39 < Isarra> You can't use js in templates.
15:39 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: tell me about your hardware. Can you boot a UNIX kernel of some kind on it?
15:39 < Shearonink> whoever this is that keeps on adding Lincoln was conscious after being shot is a tool.
15:40 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: thanks. Duh!
15:40 < Isarra> All pages which do support js are protected already.
15:40 < Shearonink> over and over and over again,
15:40 < Qcoder02> tony_Sidaway: It's old machine from around 2000 .. The only thing that preventing me from using a standrad Linux install is a bust CD Drive
15:40 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: dunno how I managed to forget the National Geographic thing, sorry.
15:40 < Qcoder02> and I don't need a full Distro for doing what is essentialy math
15:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> NGC = New General Catalogue
15:41 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: linux and most unixes will happily boot from floppy.
15:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> NGC Magazine, an unofficial Nintendo magazine in the United Kingdom
15:41 < lexein> Isarra - ok, then there was something I didn't understand. Ok, then auto-full-protection of templates anyways. I wouldn't mind having to ask perm to update a template from /sandbox to live.
15:41 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: but what is the hardware? Is it x86 or something else? And if else, what?
15:41 < Isarra> lexein: Again, you cannot use js in templates.
15:41 -!- aezop [~aezop@unaffiliated/aezop] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:41 < Qcoder02> x86
15:41 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, you can also make a linux bootable install on a USB pendrive - google for a prog called unetbootin
15:42 < Qcoder02> Thanks
15:42 < lexein> Isarra - understood - protection simply to limit vandalism.
15:42 < Isarra> Templates are wikitext same as anything they're used in.
15:42 < Qcoder02> Or I could find a cheap CD drive on Ebay ;)
15:42 < Isarra> And protection also limits the openness of the project.
15:42 < Isarra> Hence why it is only used when needed.
15:42 -!- Logan_ [~Logan@wikimedia/Logan] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:42 < Fasttimes68> How do I build a ref to a non-online source?
15:42 < Fasttimes68> this is what
15:42 < Fasttimes68> trying to ref: National Geographic Magazine, February 1, 1975, Issue 2, pg 70
15:42 < lexein> Isarra - well, it's 2012, not 2010, and vandals are more sophisticated, more aggressive, and ... more jerky.
15:43 < Qcoder02> {{cite journal}}
15:43 < Isarra> That people might vandalise something is not sufficient reason to protect anything, else everything would need protection.
15:43 < Shearonink> Hey, is there any way to do a search for whatever IP editors keep on adding the same bit of POV text?
15:43 < Qcoder02> and read the notes////
15:43 < Shearonink> Fasttimes68: That would be a cite journal
15:43 < Qcoder02> FastTimes: {{Cite Journal}} and tead the notes...
15:43 < Shearonink> use the refToolbar
15:43 < Tony_Sidaway> Qcoder02: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/system/recovery/
15:44 < Tony_Sidaway> Take your pick.
15:44 < Qcoder02> What was the tool for finding bare links?
15:44 < Isarra> lexein: Please see the protection policy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy
15:44 < Shearonink> ? reflinks?
15:44 < Shearonink> or citationbot
15:44 < Shearonink> nevre sure
15:45 < Shearonink> but that's all I use :D
15:45 < Qcoder02> Thanks
15:47 < SoapX> Romney's found his running mate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOnHrAGKwJ4
15:47 < Fasttimes68> Admin attention might be needed at [[Talk:Criticism of Holocaust denial]]
15:48 < IRWolfie-> weird, just noticed the newbie I was trying to reason with is a neo-nazi
15:48 -!- tyime [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.]
15:48 < Fasttimes68> a newbie neo nazi?
15:48 < Fasttimes68> N3
15:49 < RD> Just give me a list of people to block and we'll call it a day.
15:49 < SoapX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial is empty
15:49 < lexein> Isarra -Sure, read it, but templates are foundational, and merit protection for the reputation of the project. Also, protection is merely a bureaucratic process step, not a true impediment to openness. Just one more step to the process. I'd prefer templates to be stable, and to know that WP will always have the same look and feel, and would not at all mind the extra security step. I do...
15:49 < lexein> ...not wish to change the world. Just opining.
15:49 < Fasttimes68> I'm not getting this {{cite}} template
15:50 < BarkingFish> does anybody remember what you call those progs which force you to take a break from typing on your computer? I want one :)
15:50 < Isarra> Templates are pages created by random passerby to increase ease of use and navigation of other pages.
15:50 < Isarra> That's all/
15:50 < Isarra> .
15:50 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:51 < Isarra> By the same logic files should also be protected, as they are similarly used in other pages, and while some are, most are not.
15:51 < SoapX> well there's a wikibreak enforcer script
15:51 < SoapX> but that's just wikipedia
15:51 < lexein> Matter of scale {{reflist}} is more than that.
15:52 -!- James_F is now known as James_F|Away
15:52 < SoapX> and there's a Windows program that locks the computer if a cat crawls on the keyboard
15:52 < SoapX> it goes "CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED"
15:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Don't use the enforcer. Just go away and find more interesting things to do.
15:52 < mysterytrey> SoapX: Maybe it was actually invented to keep away drunks.
15:52 < lexein> That;s why I suggested setting automatic protection for those templates used on more than some number of pages.
15:52 < Isarra> Pretty sure reflist is protected already.
15:52 < BarkingFish> I found one, SoapX - RSIBreak
15:53 < SoapX> ha! it runs on linux
15:53 < lexein> Yes - my point.
15:53 < BarkingFish> I'm just looking for something to tell me every 15 mins or so to bugger off and rest :)
15:54 < BarkingFish> excellent. It gives you a short break every 10 minutes, and a long break every hour.
15:54 -!- shimgray [~andrew@wikimedia/Shimgray] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
15:55 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:56 < Isarra> lexein: So why are you worrying about this?
15:57 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]
15:58 < lexein> A) I saw the effects of template vandalism recently B) saw the discussion here previously, C) was recently discussing template/doc updates to {{reflist}} - and even with protection, it's not immune to mistakes by devs, so D) just wondered if admins considered template protection a topic worth addressing nowadays.
15:58 -!- Magog_the_Ogre [~Magog_the@wikipedia/Magog-the-Ogre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
15:58 < Isarra> What do devs have to do with this?
15:59 < Isarra> Mon, template protection is addressed. Admins address it and deal with it as needed.
15:59 < lexein> They don't mind the protection process as a step in the process.
15:59 < Isarra> When changes are made to widely used templates, people test them first.
16:00 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:00 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:00 < lexein> Isarra - my simple opinion is that more templates deserve protection against vandalism, because the permission step is not a big problem.
16:00 < Isarra> So request protection of those templates.
16:00 -!- Internet13 [~Internet1@cpc26-croy20-2-0-cust25.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:01 -!- YE|AFK is now known as YE
16:02 < lexein> Isarra - to be even more specific, my simple opinion is that more templates should be automatically protected against vandalism, as soon as they are used on more than a certain number of pages, because the permission-to-update step is not a big problem for the template developers.
16:02 * Peter-C licks GorillaWarfare
16:02 < lexein> Isarra - So, yes, I'm advocating, mildly, as just my own opinion, in favor of automated protection.
16:03 < Isarra> What is the permission-to-update step and to which developers are you referring?
16:03 * GorillaWarfare huggles Peter-C
16:03 -!- gizmosAHJ [~chippy@cpc36-belf9-2-0-cust13.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:03 < Peter-C> GorillaWarfare - I just learned my cousin has a summer job as a waiter, guess how much he has made since June
16:03 -!- gizmosAHJ [~chippy@cpc36-belf9-2-0-cust13.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #wikipedia-en []
16:03 < GorillaWarfare> Peter-C: How much?
16:03 < lexein> Isarra - heh ok, you're having me on. Someone working on a template requests unprotection and updating of a template, and an admin does it, no problem.
16:03 < Peter-C> 10k
16:03 < RD> A million dollars.
16:04 < Peter-C> He makes 15/h and the rest is tips
16:04 < Peter-C> how the fuck
16:04 < GorillaWarfare> Where the fuck is he waiting where he makes $15/hr
16:04 -!- zillahYGE [~chippy@cpc36-belf9-2-0-cust13.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:04 -!- zillahYGE [~chippy@cpc36-belf9-2-0-cust13.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #wikipedia-en []
16:04 -!- Fluff|sleep is now known as Fluffernutter
16:04 < Peter-C> He works at some golf club thing
16:04 < Isarra> You mean they add an editrequest to the talkpage?
16:04 < Isarra> That's how it's done.
16:04 < GorillaWarfare> I'm lucky to get $4/hr
16:04 -!- Dragonfly6-7 [~test@bas1-montreal48-1176171952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:04 < Peter-C> O-o
16:05 < lexein> Nope.
16:05 < Dragonfly6-7> [[Talk:Barack Obama/weight]] although I fully realize what this page is ACTUALLY about, I can't help thinking of raging edit wars about whether Obama should stand on a scale before or after meals
16:05 < GorillaWarfare> As a salary, I mean
16:05 < lexein> Not at all what I'm talking about. Sorry to have wasted your time, and mine.
16:06 < Isarra> You're right; I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.
16:06 < lexein> Especially since I initially addressed Fluffernutter and RD, who were chatting about it earlier.
16:06 < Fluffernutter> what?
16:07 < Peter-C> GorillaWarfare - this guy isn’t getting any tonight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ohW8_by0A&feature=player_detailpage
16:07 < lexein> My simple opinion is that more templates should be automatically protected against vandalism, as soon as they are used on more than a certain number of pages, because the permission-to-update step is not a big problem for the template developers.
16:07 -!- Qcoder02 [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/qcoder02] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
16:07 < lexein> I was re-bringing up RD and your discussion earlier about template vandalism
16:08 < Dragonfly6-7> lexein - I'm thinking of ways that could be abused
16:08 < BarkingFish> Well this is going to get interesting :) Anyone here good at writing articles about legal cases? If you are, I have got a beauty here for you.
16:08 < Isarra> Yes, you said that and didn't understand what you meant, hence why I asked for a clarification.
16:08 < Isarra> But whatever.
16:08 -!- dungodung is now known as dungodung|away
16:08 < lexein> Of course I have not been using some of the exact narrow terminology, apologies for that.
16:09 < lexein> Dragonfly6-7 - agreed!
16:09 < BarkingFish> Facebook is in court, supporting a deputy sherriff who was fired from his job, because he "liked" the facebook page of his boss's campaign rival to become the next sherriff of Hampton, VA.
16:09 < GorillaWarfare> Peter-C: Hahaha oh god
16:09 < GorillaWarfare> So cruel
16:09 < BarkingFish> A previous court turned down an appeal against the dismissal, claiming that clicking the like button did not "amount to protected speech under the 1st Amendment".
16:10 < Dragonfly6-7> could he have argued that it was an accident?
16:10 < BarkingFish> Facebook disagrees with this - they say that "if the person had gone onto the street and shouted "I like Jim Adams for the next Sherriff of Hampton", that would have been protected speech."
16:10 * lexein taking off my thinking aloud megaphone and going outside.
16:10 < BarkingFish> Clicking the like button generates the same statement on the page, and thus should be classified as protected speech :)
16:10 < BarkingFish> http://gigaom.com/2012/08/07/facebook-says-likes-are-free-speech-in-sheriff-case/
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16:12 < BarkingFish> I don't think he could have argued that, Dragonfly6-7 - if you click to like a page, you can click to unlike it too - in which case, your "like" statement is removed from that page, and yours and your friends feeds
16:12 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
16:12 < SteveMobile> Argh
16:12 < SteveMobile> My email client hates me
16:12 < SteveMobile> If someone sends an email to a list
16:12 < SteveMobile> And I reply
16:13 < SteveMobile> Why does the reply go to the whole fucking list?
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16:13 -!- ceradon [~ceradon@wikimedia/Ceradon] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:13 < SteveMobile> Urge
16:13 < BarkingFish> If it's a message meant for the list to read, then the replies go back to the list. If you want to email them privately, you should use the email address you see in the client next to their name in the From portion
16:14 < SteveMobile> Yes I realise that now
16:14 < SteveMobile> But if it's FROM someone
16:14 < BarkingFish> then why did you ask? :P
16:14 < SteveMobile> Shoudnt a REPLY go TO the person it was FROM?
16:14 < SteveMobile> Stupid iPhone
16:15 < BarkingFish> depends on the reply to path in the email header
16:15 < IRWolfie-> Fasttimes68: seems you were correct about the paid editors
16:15 < Fasttimes68> IRWolfie-: I'm always right :p
16:15 < BarkingFish> if it goes through a listsserver, it will probably change the reply to path
16:15 < SteveMobile> Bah
16:16 < IRWolfie-> I've asked the paid editor to strike out their vote at the AfD, it's inappropriate
16:16 < Dragonfly6-7> IRWolfie- - link?
16:16 < IRWolfie-> (considering they didn't disclose their paid status)
16:16 < IRWolfie-> Dragonfly6-7: to which part?
16:16 < UA31_> Are there any code to fix broken links?
16:16 < Tony_Sidaway> Who mentioned the parsoid project? Now that looks interesting.
16:16 < IRWolfie-> Dragonfly6-7: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ASockpuppet_investigations%2FAn-Apple-A-NY-Day&diff=506275249&oldid=506275048
16:16 < Fasttimes68> I wonder if the others will fess up
16:16 < Tony_Sidaway> Dragonfly6-7: hi!
16:17 < IRWolfie-> Dragonfly6-7: He's admitted his mistakes
16:17 < Dragonfly6-7> hey, Tony_Sidaway
16:17 < IRWolfie-> I don't think anything admin-wise should be done against him as it would only discourage others
16:17 < Fasttimes68> IRWolfie-: i knew something was up when 4 established editors start working on an article that gets less traffic then [[phlegm]]
16:18 < Fasttimes68> I hope no action is taken
16:18 < Fasttimes68> As I said to Hoary, on his talk page, now we know the answer to "what do we get for $10" is
16:19 < Fasttimes68> but ive been pretty much orderd off that page
16:19 < Fasttimes68> But don't expect the trouble to go away
16:22 < Fasttimes68> I just wonder how Bilby figured this out
16:22 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:22 -!- Matthew_ [~matthewrb@wikipedia/matthewrbowker] has quit [Quit: Changing computers]
16:22 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@dslb-094-217-018-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:22 < Tony_Sidaway> Thing is, many people probably assume that computers can easily grab a hunk of wikitext and just, you know process it, because it's obvious what it all means, right? Well no. It's designed for use by humans primarily and the syntax is rather loose. So in effect the mediawiki parser is the only definitive arbiter of what is and what is not a correct interpretation of wikitext.
16:23 < Tony_Sidaway> And that's a bit like using a magic 8-ball to decide how a project will proceed.
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16:24 < IRWolfie-> Fasttimes68: judging from the COIN, it seems they had no choice as someone else had figured out they were being paid
16:24 < Tony_Sidaway> The syntax is at the mercy of the last guy who had a bit of a hackathon at the parser.
16:25 < Fasttimes68> IRWolfie-: I only had hard evidence on FBell74
16:25 < Fasttimes68> Don't know what others found
16:25 < Fasttimes68> but it looks like they were working togehter somehow
16:25 -!- Inous [~al_killa@pool-173-58-11-57.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:27 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:27 < Fasttimes68> damn. I'd really like to use this picture from National Geographic :(
16:27 -!- ty [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:27 < Dragonfly6-7> Tough
16:28 -!- haggis_ [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:28 < Fasttimes68> you mean Tough Titty
16:29 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:29 -!- haggis_ is now known as haggis
16:31 -!- [Ars]Ch0ke [~ch0ke@c-75-70-194-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:32 < Fasttimes68> I found a flickr image. If I right the author, is there a form they have to fill out to release the image should they choose too?
16:32 < Fasttimes68> write
16:32 < Fasttimes68> ugh
16:32 -!- [Ars]Ch0ke [~ch0ke@c-75-70-194-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:33 < foks> yes, but goodness knows if I could find it
16:33 -!- Anurag2k12 [~Anurag2k1@bas2-cooksville01-1088750716.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:34 < TeeTylerToe> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3ARequesting_copyright_permission&ei=56UhUI3LLaf50gHuzYHoAw&usg=AFQjCNG5vwWOUjvNrzLO5W_ZegO6rXVV0A
16:34 < TeeTylerToe> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requesting_copyright_permission
16:34 < TeeTylerToe> that's annoying
16:34 -!- Inous [~al_killa@pool-173-58-11-57.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #wikipedia-en ["Silentium est aureum"]
16:35 < mysterytrey> Apache is annoying.
16:35 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has quit [Quit: AFK]
16:35 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: How so?
16:36 < mysterytrey> It's hard to get it to work correctly with php.
16:36 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@216.38.130.163] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:36 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:36 < SigmaWP> Another reason not to use php :P
16:36 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: What problems are you encountering?
16:38 -!- SteveMobile [~SteveMobi@wikimedia/Steven-Zhang] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi]
16:38 < mysterytrey> The apache test configuration has syntax ok, but when I start, it's just goes "the requested operation has failed". The error log has nothing.
16:39 -!- UA31_ [~UA31@wikipedia/UA31] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
16:39 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has quit [Client Quit]
16:40 < BarkingFish> mysterytrey, I'm having issues with apache here too. I have a downloaded website stored in a local folder, which I wanted to host on a local apache server so I can fiddle with the layout and stuff. All the html pages are fine, even the java chatroom works. But PHP pages simply give me a 403.
16:40 < Tony_Sidaway> There have been projects to reinvent mediawiki in other languages, but we seem to be stuck with PHP.
16:40 < SigmaWP> BarkingFish: chmod +x
16:40 < BarkingFish> done that
16:40 < SigmaWP> rm -rf /usr/bin
16:40 < TeeTylerToe> 0.o
16:41 < BarkingFish> all the files in the folder have 777 perms
16:41 -!- phuzion [~phuzion@208.43.144.61-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:41 < TeeTylerToe> other php sites work?
16:41 < SigmaWP> Try a .htaccess
16:41 < SigmaWP> There's something shitty you have to add to make it work
16:41 < BarkingFish> and no i won't delete my whole /usr/bin folder, i have stuff in there I need :)
16:41 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:41 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]
16:41 < TeeTylerToe> wuss
16:41 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@216.38.130.163] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:41 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:41 < Tony_Sidaway> On the other hand, I can't believe it's that hard to install Mediawiki with Apache. I did it in an afternoon once on my little Thinkpad.
16:41 -!- phuzion [~phuzion@208.43.144.61-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:42 < TeeTylerToe> I don't imagine it's a walk in the park
16:42 < jorm> we're stuck with php as long as there are external developers working on mediawiki.
16:42 < mysterytrey> Tony_Sidaway: Did you already have Apache and php?
16:43 < jorm> we could probably stop what we're doing and spend the next 6 months reimplementing mediawiki/wikipedia in another language and have a better thing for it, but that would crush people who use it for 3rd party systems. all existing extensions would die. etc.
16:45 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: not on a Thinkpad! No.
16:45 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: but I'm a software developer so it comes with the territory.
16:45 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Tony_Sidaway hates syntax highlighting
16:45 < mysterytrey> Did you do set up apache and php right there?
16:46 < mysterytrey> Or did you have it set up before you tried mediawiki.
16:46 < mysterytrey> ?
16:46 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: if I recall correctly I was probably running Debian at the time.
16:46 < BarkingFish> Fuckin' A. This just scared the crap out of me. I don't know what the hell it is, but I can categorically say - Do Not Want. If you're nervous or scare easily, please don't look at this - it just freaked the hell out of me, and I'm difficult to scare.
16:46 < BarkingFish> http://i.imgur.com/GCYkG.gif
16:46 < BarkingFish> I think it's some kind of spider, but not sure.
16:47 < Tony_Sidaway> So you just install the relevant packages and then download Mediawiki and follow the README.
16:47 < Tony_Sidaway> But this was probably '06.
16:47 < mysterytrey> Interesting gif.
16:47 < BarkingFish> My heart is sitting here going "what the hell did you do that for??!?"
16:48 -!- ty [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:48 < mysterytrey> Oh, like readmes have ever helped installing anything as complex as a server.
16:50 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: I've installed thousands of very complex bits of software using skills I learned from Miss Metcalfa at my infants school in the early 1960s.
16:50 < mysterytrey> Well I'm not qualified.
16:50 < Tony_Sidaway> She was a bit of a hottie, I thought so at the time even at age 5.
16:50 < mysterytrey> Nice.
16:50 < mysterytrey> Real nice.
16:51 < Tony_Sidaway> I'm seriously considering downloading a recent copy of Mediawiki to work out if it's become more fearsome since then.
16:52 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: When you do /etc/forgot/apache2 restart it says "The requested operation has failed"?
16:52 < SigmaWP> Or what?
16:52 < SoapX> i havent seen TParis in a while
16:53 -!- Gladamas [~Gladamas@109.sub-70-199-131.myvzw.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:53 < mysterytrey> From Apache Service Moniter. When I start, I get a popup saying "The requested operation has failed." The test configuration exe just has syntax ok.
16:54 < mysterytrey> Clarificationj: *When I click start off of Apache Service moniter.
16:54 < SigmaWP> What OS?
16:54 -!- lubmil [~lubmil@89-67-33-69.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: noc, ppa]
16:54 < mysterytrey> Windows. Tis a pity, I know.
16:54 < SigmaWP> Just get a virtual machine
16:55 < Tony_Sidaway> Bloody hell! It now supports sqlite3! So no nasty messing around with mysql or postgresql!
16:56 < SigmaWP> Virtual machines are underrated
16:56 < Frood> not really
16:56 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:57 < mysterytrey> Honestly I need to set up Ubuntu on the hard disk, but I'm too lazy.
16:57 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@dslb-094-217-018-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:57 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:57 < mysterytrey> Actually I seriously question why I don't even have a cd set up with Ubuntu.
16:58 * SigmaWP prefers bootable USBs
16:58 < IRWolfie-> Anyone else read numerous discussions then afterwards realize they never actually commented?
16:59 * foks has no idea how to make a bootable USB
16:59 < mysterytrey> IRWolfie-: Always.
16:59 < foks> bootable CDs on the other hand = win
16:59 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:59 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]
16:59 < IRWolfie-> It's kind of weird when you think you did, and are puzzled you can't find your response :D
17:00 < IRWolfie-> maybe it's a sign I'm a wikiholic (that and the failed wikibreak)
17:00 < mysterytrey> It looks like I went for a month, but actually I was reading my watchlist and everything.
17:00 < mysterytrey> I just never even edited or participated in discussion much.
17:00 -!- Patar_knight [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Patar-knight] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:01 -!- Icy_ [4c13b6b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.19.182.185] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:01 < SoapX> yeah i do that too
17:02 < mysterytrey> But I'm not going to make a hard disk boot anytime soon. My computer is in horrible condition. Always will be. Even huggle bugs everytime I load it. I have to download it again everytime I want to use.
17:02 -!- Icy_ [4c13b6b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.19.182.185] has left #wikipedia-en []
17:02 < SoapX> "ok I'll be sure to vote on this RfA when I get home from work" ... "OK too busy i'll do it tomorrow" ... "hmm maybe i should wait until this discussion ends" .... "ooh theres some good videos on youtube tonight" .... "hey, sorry your RfA failed by 1%, if only i had voted, you might have passed ..."
17:03 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:03 < SigmaWP> How do you spell "token"
17:03 < SigmaWP> like the edit one
17:04 < SigmaWP> It looks wrong
17:04 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@dslb-094-217-018-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:04 < RD> tokin
17:04 < RD> :P
17:04 < SigmaWP> thanks
17:04 < RD> lol
17:04 < RD> idk
17:04 < Apheori> mysterytrey: Huggle bugging is huggle, not your computer.
17:04 < RD> It is token
17:04 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@dslb-094-217-018-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Changing host]
17:04 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:04 < SigmaWP> huh.
17:04 < IRWolfie-> mysterytrey: it's a hard addiction to break, because looking at articles on wikipedia can be necessary for work
17:04 < mysterytrey> I blame my computer.
17:04 < Earwig> SigmaWP: RD's just a troll. 'token'
17:04 < IRWolfie-> and then you notice a typo, and your logged in
17:05 < foks> Apheori, not always
17:05 < Susuke_Tamagawa> true story
17:05 < RD> Earwig: I said that.
17:05 < RD> SigmaWP:
17:05 < RD> https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?search=token&title=Special%3ASearch
17:05 * Apheori crashes foks.
17:05 < Earwig> I wanted to confirm it
17:05 < SigmaWP> I wrote a cookie manager
17:05 < Earwig> you aren't to be trusted.
17:05 < SigmaWP> it sucks
17:05 < Earwig> is it eating all of them behind your back?
17:05 < SigmaWP> It returns an empty dict
17:05 -!- Jayflux [~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )]
17:05 < SigmaWP> So that must be the case
17:06 -!- Tiptoety [~Tiptoety@207-224-16-11.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:06 -!- Tiptoety [~Tiptoety@207-224-16-11.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host]
17:06 -!- Tiptoety [~Tiptoety@wikipedia/Tiptoety] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:06 < RD> Hello Tiptoety.
17:06 -!- Susuke_Tamagawa [~Lisa_Logg@c-98-204-30-21.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:07 * SigmaWP hugs Tiptoety for participating in the rolandhelper cases
17:07 -!- flail [flail@thefuture.kazuya.me] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:07 < RD> Hello flail
17:07 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o RD] by ChanServ
17:07 < Tiptoety> Hello.
17:07 -!- flail [flail@thefuture.kazuya.me] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by RD (flail)]
17:08 -!- flail [flail@thefuture.kazuya.me] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:08 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@thefuture*)] by RD
17:08 -!- flail [flail@thefuture.kazuya.me] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by RD (flail)]
17:08 -!- flail [flail@thefuture.kazuya.me] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:08 <@RD> I flail
17:08 < flail> oh come on
17:08 <@RD> lol
17:08 < flail> majorly
17:08 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o RD] by ChanServ
17:08 < RD> I give up
17:08 < RD> Behave.
17:08 < flail> in fact, majorly says hello
17:08 < RD> Majorly?
17:08 < RD> :O
17:09 < RD> lol
17:09 < flail> User:Majorly
17:09 < RD> Yes
17:09 < RD> I remember
17:09 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
17:09 < RD> I don't remember us getting along!
17:09 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@*kazuya.me] by foks
17:09 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o foks] by ChanServ
17:09 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
17:09 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
17:09 -!- flail was kicked from #wikipedia-en by foks [flail]
17:09 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o foks] by ChanServ
17:09 < RD> We were having a lovely discussion.
17:09 < foks> WHATEVER.
17:09 <@Fluffernutter> do a nickban, it'll get you further
17:10 < mysterytrey> Huge op fail.
17:10 < RD> I was actually enjoying that one :P I haven't heard about Majorly since 2009
17:10 < foks> I have no idea if this script lets you.
17:10 -!- Gladamas_ [~Gladamas@c-67-185-89-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:10 < RD> Quassel is being buggy and I'm sort of tired.
17:10 * WilliamH_UK has met Majorly
17:10 < mysterytrey> Go quassel.
17:10 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b flail!*@*] by Fluffernutter
17:10 < SoapX> majorly was cool
17:11 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has quit [Quit: GorillaWarfare]
17:11 < SoapX> i mostly remember him for the spoof RfA he set up once
17:11 < IShadowed> I would bang Majorly
17:11 < mysterytrey> ...
17:11 < RD> What the hell?
17:11 < mysterytrey> Spoof RfA?
17:11 < SoapX> it was fun
17:11 < SoapX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Majorly/RFA <--- funnier when it was live, still funny today though imo
17:12 * SigmaWP suggests that Fluffernutter deöp in the presence of non-trolls
17:12 < BarkingFish> I remember majorly from ages back. Why is he banned from here?
17:12 < BarkingFish> If that is flail...
17:12 * Fluffernutter suggests that SigmaWP not tell the ops how to op
17:12 < SigmaWP> Ö
17:12 <@Fluffernutter> BarkingFish, flail is just our usual pet troll
17:12 < IShadowed> SigmaWP likes to tell everyone how to do everything, Flueeh
17:12 < SoapX> i really doubt that's actually Majorly
17:12 < SigmaWP> IShadowed: Shut up
17:12 < SigmaWP> :D
17:12 * haggis suggests that Fluffernutter ops haggis
17:13 < haggis> that my friends, is how wikipedia will self-destruct.
17:13 < Gladamas_> Hey guys, I'm back from a >1 year hiatus, what's up at Wikipedia
17:13 < Gladamas_> ?
17:13 <@Fluffernutter> by opping you?
17:13 < BarkingFish> SoapX, Good. That's a relief. Majorly was a really nice person, I have nfi what happened, but not seen them for ages.
17:13 < haggis> Fluffernutter: /cs mode #wikipedia-en +b *!*@*
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17:13 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
17:13 -!- krusy [krusty@police.password.org.in] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by Fluffernutter (krusy)]
17:13 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o+b Fluffernutter *!*@police.password.org.in] by Fluffernutter
17:13 < BarkingFish> bam!
17:13 -!- Gladamas_ is now known as Gladamas
17:14 < haggis> i hate my computer
17:14 < BarkingFish> Good to see our ops on top form this evening :)
17:14 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
17:14 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@*password.org.in] by Fluffernutter
17:14 < haggis> whenever i try to dust it...
17:14 < Earwig> oh god this channel
17:14 < haggis> it has this touch activated wifi button
17:14 < SoapX> hi Gladamas
17:14 < haggis> and it deactivates
17:14 < haggis> Earwig: hello
17:14 < SoapX> please excuse the chaos, we've got a lot of trolls in here
17:14 < Earwig> hi
17:14 < SoapX> whats your wikipedia username?
17:14 -!- krusy [krusty@2001:470:fcc0::67] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:14 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
17:14 < Gladamas> SoapX: Uh, I'd prefer not to say, under FRESHSTART
17:14 < haggis> SoapX: addihockey10
17:14 -!- krusy [krusty@2001:470:fcc0::67] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by foks (krusy)]
17:15 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b-o *!*@2001:470:fcc0::67 foks] by foks
17:15 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
17:15 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+r] by foks
17:15 < Gladamas> CLEANSTART? i dont remember
17:15 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o foks] by foks
17:15 < SigmaWP> Gladamas: You are motivating people to find out who you were :P
17:15 < SoapX> ok
17:15 < Gladamas> meh
17:15 < haggis> Fluffernutter: Run for arbcom
17:15 < SoapX> just needed to make sure youre not another one of the trolls who's been messing up the channel tonight
17:15 < BarkingFish> haggis - protip - get some corregated cardboard, cut a strip big enough to go round the wifi button without touching it, and glue it to your PC.
17:15 < SoapX> nice to meet you
17:15 < Gladamas> SoapX: No, I'm not a troll
17:15 < haggis> BarkingFish: but then i can't actually use it when i need to XD
17:16 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b krusy!*@*] by Fluffernutter
17:16 <@Fluffernutter> haggis: why?
17:16 < BarkingFish> yes you can- you put your finger inside the barrier you made
17:16 < Gladamas> Meh, I might as well say who I was if I'm going to apply for anything: Samwb123
17:16 < BarkingFish> it's called a fence
17:16 < Gladamas> anyone remember me?
17:16 < SoapX> nope
17:16 < haggis> Fluffernutter: one of the most level-headed admin people
17:16 <@Fluffernutter> haggis: ah, but there are those who will tell you I am the most horrible admin that ever adminned
17:16 < SoapX> so it's been a year? Not much has changed, to be honest
17:16 < Gladamas> hmm
17:17 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
17:17 < haggis> Fluffernutter: And there are those who well tell me that I am the most horrible human that ever humaned, but idc :-)
17:17 < haggis> i still human
17:18 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: in case you were wondering I just downloaded the tar file and, as suggested by the INSTALL file, downloaded the wiki in place (renaming the install directory under htdocs as wiki instead of mediawiki-1.19.1 or whatever).
17:18 < Peter-C> Touch my bass.
17:18 < Gladamas> heh i still have my cloak
17:18 -!- Gladamas is now known as Samwb123
17:18 < IShadowed> You're too young.
17:18 < BarkingFish> Gladamas - why do you need to apply for cleanstart? I don't see any blocks or anything bad against you on your talk page or userpage
17:18 < BarkingFish> Damn. Nick change while typing :P
17:18 < Tony_Sidaway> Then I just edited a line in my httpd.conf to make it recognise php files, and now I'm up and running.
17:19 < mysterytrey> Seriously, just a line?
17:19 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: .htaccess is your friend
17:19 < SigmaWP> and so is http.conf
17:19 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: absolutely. I shit you not. It's easier than I remember.
17:19 < Peter-C> IShadowed - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5sFMNUB9OE
17:19 -!- Samwb123 is now known as Gladamas
17:19 < Gladamas> i forgot my freenode pass, whateevr
17:19 < Gladamas> Barkingfish: I was being kinda immature
17:19 < SoapX> a lot of freenode nicks expired recently. is it even still there?
17:20 -!- maid [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:20 < SoapX> guess so
17:20 < mysterytrey> Gladamas: I think nickserv expires within a month of inctivitiy
17:20 < BarkingFish> Gladamas, if you need to get it back, you just ask #freenode for a password reset email
17:20 < Gladamas> ok, thx
17:20 < BarkingFish> and it is still registered - this nick is, anyway
17:20 < mysterytrey> #inactivity
17:20 < mysterytrey> ***inactivity
17:21 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: I happen to be using OpenBSD's version of Apache but basically I installed PHP 2.something, downloaded the wiki, edited httpd.conf to say PHP files aren't food, and now in my browers I'm looking at a wiki complaining that it needs me to tell it some basic configuration stuff.
17:21 < BarkingFish> and Samwb123 is also registered
17:21 < mysterytrey> Lucky you.
17:22 < Tony_Sidaway> php-5.2.17p12 is the PHP version.
17:22 < Gladamas> How has the vandalism level increased in the last 2 years?
17:22 < Gladamas> or decreased?
17:22 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: read the INSTALL file. It's all in there.
17:23 < mysterytrey> Install of mediawiki, php, or apache?
17:23 < mysterytrey> Because apache usually lacks in explaining on Windows stuff.
17:24 < Tony_Sidaway> AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
17:24 < Tony_Sidaway> That's the Apache config line I added to get it to stop treating php as food.
17:24 < BarkingFish> Gladamas, it's been on the up, although we've been keeping on top of it.
17:24 -!- AzaToth [~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:24 < BarkingFish> We're now in the process of having a system added which may have been in discussion when you were last active, called Pending Changes
17:25 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Logan_] by ChanServ
17:25 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-r] by Logan_
17:25 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o Logan_] by ChanServ
17:25 < Gladamas> ya, they wer just starting pending changes when I left
17:25 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: Apache is built in in OpenBSD. I only had to install a version of PHP, tell Apache to take PHP seriously, and open the tar file of mediawiki into htdocs.
17:25 < mysterytrey> I also had to do LoadModule php5_module "C:/Windows/php/5_2_17/php5apache2_2.dll" , which once I finally got the syntax good, the operation is still failing
17:25 < SoapX> he he
17:25 < Gladamas> man, 1.5 years later its still being added
17:25 < SoapX> thats how little change there's been
17:25 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: a2enmod php5
17:25 < SigmaWP> Try that
17:25 -!- Bancomat [~gsyx@ool-18bf65f7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:26 < SigmaWP> Just to make sure it's enabled at all :P
17:26 < Bancomat> Hello
17:26 < mysterytrey> Just anywhere.
17:26 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh and I had to create a softlink to the relevant module for PHP into the apache modules directory.
17:26 < BarkingFish> The upshot of pending changes is simple, Gladamas - people can edit the page, but if you don't want to see their changes until they're reviewed, you can set it so you don't have to. You can pick to view either the sighted or unsighted version, Gladamas
17:26 < Gladamas> Did anyone figure out what happened a few years ago with Puffin?
17:26 < mysterytrey> Where do I place it?
17:26 < SoapX> I guess you could say there's been more outreach into communities not traditionally associated with Wikipedia in the last year
17:26 < haggis> Logan_!
17:26 < haggis> dafaq
17:26 < Logan_> Hello haggis.
17:26 * haggis is betrayed
17:26 < Gladamas> BarkingFish: Nice, same as it was :)
17:26 -!- LikeLakers2 [~LikeLaker@wikipedia/LikeLakers2] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:27 < BarkingFish> yeah, only now, instead of arguments, it's actually happening.
17:27 < Logan_> Hi Bancomat.
17:27 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: can't help you with Apache 2.2. The OpenBSD bods stopped following Apache upstream nearly 10 years ago.
17:27 < BarkingFish> Regardless of who did, or didn't want it, it's coming.
17:27 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: run "a2enmod php5" on the terminal
17:27 < SigmaWP> and tell me if you get retarded errors
17:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Logan_] by ChanServ
17:27 -!- Bancomat [~gsyx@ool-18bf65f7.dyn.optonline.net] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by Logan_ (Goodbye)]
17:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o Fluffernutter] by ChanServ
17:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o+b Fluffernutter *!*@ool-18bf65f7.dyn.optonline.net] by Fluffernutter
17:27 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o Logan_] by ChanServ
17:27 * Fluffernutter sneers at Logan_
17:27 < Logan_> >:-(
17:28 < Tony_Sidaway> Um, now I've got a PHP install burning a hole in my cognitive apparatus. MUST UNINSTALL!
17:28 < Gladamas> use linux FTW
17:28 < Tony_Sidaway> What Gladamas said.
17:29 < haggis> Logan_: loosen up, have a beer.
17:29 < Tony_Sidaway> 99% of all Windows vexations can be solved by installing a proper operating system.
17:29 -!- Maryana [~justdandy@wikipedia/Accedie] has quit [Quit: AFK]
17:30 < BarkingFish> The remaining 1% can be solved by installing a competent operator at the keyboard, Tony_Sidaway
17:30 < BarkingFish> :)
17:30 < SoapX> so much anti-Windows prejudice
17:31 < SoapX> you all just make fun of Windows because you know it's the best, right?
17:31 < Gladamas> um
17:31 < mysterytrey> SigmaWP: CMD isn't accepting a2enmod php
17:31 < Gladamas> not for servers SoapX
17:31 < Tony_Sidaway> It's a fact. Somebody who doesn't randomly click the right mouse button . ;)
17:31 < SoapX> I mean nobody really uses Linux in real life
17:31 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Get a virtual machine
17:31 < Gladamas> SoapX: IDK, Bitcoin mining they do :)
17:31 < SigmaWP> SoapX: Linux is good when you blow up your windows install
17:31 < mysterytrey> Send me a link.
17:32 < TeeTylerToe> doesn't the electricity cost more than the bitcoins they mine using it?
17:32 < Gladamas> nope
17:32 < haggis> Gladamas: >:(
17:32 < mysterytrey> To a good free virtual machine.
17:32 < Gladamas> about 1/6 cost in electricity
17:32 < Tony_Sidaway> Actually I recently started just using my main box through my daughter's games computer.
17:32 < Gladamas> what's with the Bitcoin WP article? It has like anti-BTC prejudice?
17:32 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: https://virtualbox.org
17:32 < BarkingFish> SoapX, lots of people use Linux irl. I have 2 friends, both computer engineers, who constantly carry linux on a USB stick to use as a repair tool for people who bugger up their windows kit.
17:32 < haggis> Gladamas: type bitcoin bit-coin plz
17:32 < mysterytrey> As long as they mine bitcoins on the GPU, not the CPU, they should make more than they lose.
17:32 < SigmaWP> BarkingFish: That's me :D
17:33 < Gladamas> /fail
17:33 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: https://www.virtualbox.org
17:33 < Gladamas> really? please do your research before making these comments.
17:33 < haggis> BarkingFish: join #addihockey10 ?
17:33 < mysterytrey> Thanks, SigmaWP
17:33 < Tony_Sidaway> I must try to work out what a bitcoin is, and why it is often mistaken for money.
17:33 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/virtualbox/index
17:33 < Gladamas> *Sigh* changing the topic
17:33 < SigmaWP> If you need assistance
17:34 < SigmaWP> The images are gone, strange
17:34 < SigmaWP> oic
17:34 < mysterytrey> A bitcoin is a currency.
17:34 < Gladamas> its a currency that can be sent through the internet, for very low cost.
17:34 < haggis> stop saying bit coin, that means you Gladamas Tony_Sidaway and mysterytrey
17:34 < haggis> thanks.
17:34 < Gladamas> ok
17:34 < mysterytrey> Hows BTC?
17:34 < SigmaWP> Awesome
17:34 < Gladamas> lol
17:34 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: What browse are you using?
17:35 < mysterytrey> Opera.
17:35 -!- foks [~sup@wikipedia/fox] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzz]
17:35 < Gladamas> Hey guys, if you have any grudges against BTC, go hop on #bitcoin and let the PhD majors there help you
17:35 < SigmaWP> Can you open a javascript console thing?
17:36 < mysterytrey> By javascript console thing?
17:36 < Tony_Sidaway> I really hate being asked to stop saying things like bit coin by random people.
17:36 < mysterytrey> you mean...
17:37 < Tony_Sidaway> Or bitcoin for that matter.
17:37 -!- Mad_Scientist [~GMM@187.65.82.148] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:37 < Fluffernutter> personally I just really hate people
17:37 < Tony_Sidaway> It's so fucking rude.
17:37 < SoapX> ok
17:38 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Just anything that can run javascript in opera
17:38 * Logan_ proposes applying WP:SOAPBOX to IRC.
17:38 < mysterytrey> Yeah, Opera supports Java.
17:38 < Gladamas> Yes
17:38 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Java != javascript
17:38 < Tony_Sidaway> Logan_: then we might as well all go home! :)
17:38 < SigmaWP> Hold on
17:38 < Logan_> Java = Java + Script
17:38 < Logan_> amirite
17:38 < Gladamas> no
17:38 -!- Shaded [~Shaded@unaffiliated/shaded] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:38 < Logan_> sadface
17:38 < Logan_> er
17:38 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Go to tools->advanced->javascript console
17:38 < Logan_> JavaScript = Java + Script
17:38 < Gladamas> they are two completely different programming languages
17:38 < Logan_> botched equation
17:39 < mysterytrey> Opera supports Javascript.
17:39 < Shaded> Wikipedia will not accept Bitcoin donations until the EFF does.
17:39 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Go to tools->advanced->javascript console
17:39 < Shaded> js.
17:39 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has left #wikipedia-en []
17:39 -!- liberaldudette [~mark@74.63.233.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:39 -!- Mad_Scientist [~GMM@187.65.82.148] has left #wikipedia-en ["Leaving"]
17:39 < Logan_> It's JavaScript!
17:39 < Logan_> CamelCase plz.
17:39 < Gladamas> Shaded...... The EFF does accept bitcoin
17:39 -!- TheButterZone [~TheButter@ip72-220-147-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:39 < SigmaWP> Done?
17:39 < Shaded> No they don't.
17:39 < SigmaWP> Found it?
17:39 < Shaded> They actually advise against it
17:39 < Shaded> They DID accept it, until they revoked it
17:39 < Tony_Sidaway> So it's money? And you can make it by having a powerful processor such as a high end GPU?
17:39 -!- gheraint [~gheraint@freenode/staff/gheraint] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:39 < Tony_Sidaway> Or is that a cracking operation?
17:40 < mysterytrey> SigmaWP: Tools from the browser, java, etc.?
17:40 < Shirik> um
17:40 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Yes
17:40 < Shirik> Tony_Sidaway: That's not really how it works, but yes
17:40 < SigmaWP> Browser menu thing
17:40 < Shaded> Tony_Sidaway: Don't even bother about mining
17:40 < SigmaWP> tools -> advanced -> javascript console
17:40 < Shaded> That's just the way the network operates.
17:40 < Gladamas> Shaded: I'm mining right now, getting $130/month, paying #
17:40 -!- liberaldudette [~mark@74.63.233.124] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:40 < Shaded> Instead of hosting payment processing servers, it's crowdsource
17:40 < Gladamas> $20/month electricity
17:40 -!- gheraint [~gheraint@freenode/staff/gheraint] has left #wikipedia-en []
17:40 < Shaded> d
17:41 < Shaded> Gladamas: For how long ;)
17:41 < Shaded> And with what initial investment
17:41 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:41 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]
17:41 < Shirik> Gladamas: Yes, but the problem with people thinking this way is bitcoin was not meant to be a "print your own money!"
17:41 < Gladamas> Shaded: For about 6 months
17:41 < Shaded> Not to mention how long you spent learning about it
17:41 < Gladamas> Shirik: Correct
17:41 < mysterytrey> I'm not seeing tools from browser menu.
17:41 < Gladamas> about 2 days
17:41 < Tony_Sidaway> So people want to use it as money but in fact it's easy to crack so people just sit with their work computers running all night and they wake up next day and they've "mined" 30 pence or something.
17:41 < Shirik> no
17:41 < Shirik> it's not cracking
17:41 < Gladamas> no its not easy to crack
17:41 < Shirik> it's solving a problem
17:41 < Gladamas> the blockchain ftw
17:41 < Shirik> it is intended that mining is possible
17:42 < Tony_Sidaway> Ah.
17:42 < Shirik> so basically every transaction needs to be verified by someone
17:42 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh I remember now. I think I read about it.
17:42 < Tony_Sidaway> SO it's fun.
17:42 < Tony_Sidaway> Then how is it money?
17:42 < Shirik> the miners' job is to solve a difficult problem to lock that in
17:42 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: ctrl+shift+i
17:42 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: then click the 'console' tab
17:42 < Shirik> in return, they get compensated a transaction fee for some transactions, and then the "block reward"
17:42 < Tony_Sidaway> Does the miner get to keep the money?
17:42 < Shirik> currently it's 50 BTC, but it will be lessened soon
17:42 < Gladamas> yes
17:43 < Shaded> Tony_Sidaway: Instead of being government backed, it's usability backed. It's a LOT simpler to transfer money internationally with Bitcoin
17:43 < Shirik> not the money in the transaction
17:43 < Shaded> That's where the value comes from
17:43 < Shirik> they keep the block reward and transaction fee
17:43 < Tony_Sidaway> So why aren't we just mining all the time?
17:43 < Gladamas> its decentralized money
17:43 < mysterytrey> Gotcha know.
17:43 < Gladamas> Tony_Sidaway: Startup costs
17:43 < Shirik> because it is not easy
17:43 < Shaded> In anycase it's an infant project.
17:43 < Tony_Sidaway> Sounds like loony tunes to me.
17:43 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: it might be ctrl+alt+i
17:43 < Shaded> No reason to promote it yet :c
17:43 < SigmaWP> oh it worked?
17:43 < mysterytrey> Yup.
17:44 < SigmaWP> good
17:44 < SigmaWP> now enter this: alert(window.location.href);
17:44 < SigmaWP> did something happen?
17:44 < Shirik> Tony_Sidaway: Look at it this way. In the USA, the government gets to decide when to print money
17:44 < Tony_Sidaway> Might as well give all the money to people who are good at Left4Dead2 (my daughter would be a millionnaire).
17:44 < Shirik> In the BTC world, there will only ever be 21 million BTC. Ever.
17:44 -!- Nascar1996 is now known as N1996|away
17:44 < Shirik> Much like there is only a limited amount of gold.
17:44 < Shirik> Why aren't you out there mining gold?
17:44 < SigmaWP> Shirik: Nature gives the useful stuff in abundance
17:45 < Tony_Sidaway> Shirik: actually I like the idea that the government limits the money supply. Here the supply is being set by some rather dodgy mathematical assumptions.
17:45 < SoapX> ahhh we started a debate about bitcoin
17:45 < Shirik> limits? ha!
17:45 < mysterytrey> Yeah. I now see a javacript window with an ok and the url.
17:45 < SigmaWP> good
17:45 < Shirik> they just print money whenever they feel like it
17:45 < Gladamas> ya no way, with this government beaurocracy
17:45 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Now go back to http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/virtualbox/
17:46 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: Close the javascript console first
17:46 < SigmaWP> Open it
17:46 < SigmaWP> And then enter this:
17:46 < Tony_Sidaway> Shirik: this is what I said. They limit it.
17:46 < SigmaWP> for (var i = 0; i < document.images.length; i++) { document.images[i].src = document.images[i].src.replace("virtualbox/", ""); }
17:46 < Shirik> and what "dodgy mathematical assumptions"?
17:46 < SigmaWP> You should be able to see the images now
17:46 < TeeTylerToe> btc hasn't been very stable
17:46 < Shirik> Euro hasn't been very stable.
17:46 < TeeTylerToe> euro's been pretty stable
17:46 < Tony_Sidaway> So we're talking about a system that rewards clever people with access to large amounts of hardware downtime.
17:46 < mysterytrey> That's alot to type manually. But ok.
17:46 < SigmaWP> Copy/paste
17:46 -!- Dagny [~missrain@wikipedia/OohBunnies] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:47 < Gladamas> BTC will be stable when more people adopt it.
17:47 < Shirik> Tony_Sidaway: No, again, mining is NOT to make money
17:47 < Gladamas> BTW its $11/BTC right now
17:47 < mysterytrey> Can't paste into window. Won't let me.
17:47 < Shirik> It is to manage transactions
17:47 < SigmaWP> Oh
17:47 < SigmaWP> Then you have to type manually :P
17:47 < Shirik> Eventually mining will have a block reward of 0 BTC
17:47 < Tony_Sidaway> Shirik: oh I thought somebody agreed that I could keep the money I mined. Make your mind up!
17:47 < Shirik> ok
17:47 < Shirik> currently there is a block reward, yes. You get to keep it, yes. But that is not the purpose of mining.
17:47 < TeeTylerToe> there won't be anything to mine at the end
17:48 < TeeTylerToe> iirc
17:48 < Shirik> The purpose is to sustain the network
17:48 < Tony_Sidaway> So I'm not mining money?
17:48 < Tony_Sidaway> But I get a "reward".
17:48 < TeeTylerToe> you are.
17:48 < Shirik> currently, yes. Because we need to get the 21 million BTC into the economy somehow.
17:48 < Tony_Sidaway> What is the reward in exchange for, if I have nothing of value.
17:48 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: When you're done setting up ubuntu and stuff, follow the directions at http://helpdeskgeek.com/linux-tips/install-virtualbox-guest-additions-in-ubuntu/
17:48 < Shirik> for solving the problem of getting transactions into the block chain
17:48 < SigmaWP> This will make your virtualbox installation run better
17:48 < TeeTylerToe> Once the problem is 100% solved all the money will be allocated by whoever mined each individual block
17:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway you have the power of the heart
17:48 < mysterytrey> Okay.
17:49 < Shirik> Ok so let's say I want to send you 1 BTC
17:49 < Shirik> I broadcast that to the network
17:49 < SigmaWP> mysterytrey: When you install the guest additions (see previosu link) you follow the directions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
17:49 < Tony_Sidaway> It's not that difficult a problem. Want a currency to get into circulation? Just give it away to people.
17:49 < SigmaWP> Then you can run apache
17:49 < SigmaWP> :D
17:49 < Shirik> why should anyone trust that?
17:49 < SigmaWP> And now I have to goi
17:49 < SigmaWP> bye
17:49 -!- James_F|Away [~jdforrest@wikimedia/JamesF] has quit [Quit: James_F|Away]
17:49 < Shirik> I could have sent that 1 BTC to someone else!
17:49 < Shirik> and just not have told anyone
17:49 < Shirik> the blockchain and miners solve that problem
17:49 < mysterytrey> That's not a walk in the park.
17:49 < SigmaWP> Indeed, it isn't
17:49 -!- N1996|away [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has quit [Quit: zZzzZzzZzz!]
17:49 < Tony_Sidaway> The trick with any currency, is to create scarcity and allow that to be exploited.
17:49 < SigmaWP> Cross your fingers and ask Tony_Sidaway if you need assistance
17:50 < SigmaWP> Tony_Sidaway: Capitalism sucks btw
17:50 < Shirik> so let's say I send 1 BTC to person A, and 1 BTC to person B, and use the same 1 BTC to pay both. Obviously only one can be valid.
17:50 < TeeTylerToe> but part of btc is that you can't track who has had a block
17:50 -!- SteveMobile [~SteveMobi@wikimedia/Steven-Zhang] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:50 < Shirik> A miner will eventually include one of those transactions in a block that he solves
17:50 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:50 < SoapX> Bitcoin is very well thought out
17:50 < Shirik> When it's in a block, that transaction is verified
17:50 < Tony_Sidaway> So was the Euro.
17:50 < Shirik> It is impossible for both of those transactions to get into a block
17:50 < Shirik> effectively one of those transactions will get discarded
17:51 < Shirik> the miner's job is to verify transactions and create a permanent record of it
17:51 < mysterytrey> I can now see pictures though.
17:51 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: you got it working now? Yay!
17:51 < Gladamas> Tony_Sidaway: The main idea behind Bitcoin is that it is free from government control
17:51 < Shirik> here's an example
17:51 < Shirik> http://blockchain.info/block-index/258914/00000000000005020b50085af4b8f7ad23e24f2ee6ad3f56d9c9b3489310e989
17:51 < mysterytrey> I got pictures working now.
17:51 < Shirik> Some miner found that block and got rewarded 50 BTC for verifying these 89 transactions
17:51 < Gladamas> Shirik: Wow, you know your stuff!
17:51 < Tony_Sidaway> Gladamas: yep. You say that like it's a _good_ thing.
17:52 < Gladamas> it is
17:52 < Shirik> actually 50.025 but whatever
17:52 < Gladamas> cause of tx fees
17:52 -!- Fluffernutter is now known as Fluff|away
17:53 < Tony_Sidaway> Governments are great. I say this as a confirmed anarchist. Governments are all that protects us from people who think capitalism can ever work.
17:53 < TeeTylerToe> democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms tried from time to time
17:53 < Tony_Sidaway> I left the internet alone for five minutes, and it fills up with libertarian loonies.
17:54 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has left #wikipedia-en ["parted"]
17:54 < IShadowed> ...
17:54 * Dagny pokes IShadowed in the side
17:54 * IShadowed glances sideways at Dagny
17:55 -!- Logan_ [~Logan@wikimedia/Logan] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
17:55 < TeeTylerToe> I say Mrs. Taggart!
17:55 < Dagny> Oh, diaf
17:55 < Dagny> :P
17:55 < TeeTylerToe> you've ruined two monacles!
17:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway umm
17:56 < TeeTylerToe> they're ruined!
17:56 -!- StevenW [~textual@wikimedia/steven-walling] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
17:56 < Tony_Sidaway> ANyway when I'm a bitcoin millionnaire this place will be all office blocks containing grunts like you chaps all busy mining for me and my corporation.
17:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the internet can never have enough loonies
17:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway I would suck as a miner
17:57 < IShadowed> Yeah no
17:57 < IShadowed> You kind of have to understand how bitcoin works to become "a bitcoin millionnaire"
17:57 < IShadowed> Pretty sure you just demonstrated you don't.
17:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm?
17:57 < Tony_Sidaway> Reminds me of "Manic Miner", a perfectly awful cult Spectrum game that had horrible collision detection and a very irritating tune.
17:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> bitcoin is a popular tool for the mafia
17:57 < TeeTylerToe> also your chances were much better at the start
17:57 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
17:58 < TeeTylerToe> when the blocks were easier to compute and the payout was a lot higher
17:58 < IShadowed> yes but this is not the start
17:58 < IShadowed> so this is irrelevant
17:58 < TheButterZone> cash is a popular tool for the mafia
17:58 < Tony_Sidaway> IShadowed: if I had demonstrated understanding of bitcoin, I should feel shame. My intention as ever is to make fun of libertarian pretensions.
17:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheButterZone true but bitcoin is nice for cybercrime
17:58 < TeeTylerToe> also crooked banks like... well every bank
17:58 < IShadowed> Tony_Sidaway: you're doing a shit job of it
17:58 < Tony_Sidaway> IShadowed: I got you going.
17:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> then again UK Banks like to make deals with druglords and other scumbags
17:59 < IShadowed> Hardly, I think you're dumb as fuck and I'm sitting here giggly.
17:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> while I am certain they would reject my application for an account
17:59 < IShadowed> If that means "gets me going" then... yeah.
17:59 -!- tonynoname3 [~tonynonam@pool-108-44-28-11.albyny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: tonynoname3]
17:59 * ToAruShiroiNeko cant imagine a giggly IShadowed
17:59 < TeeTylerToe> language ladies
17:59 < IShadowed> Sue me
17:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I'll Sue Gardner you
18:00 < IShadowed> 10/10 Will not object
18:00 -!- Gladamas [~Gladamas@c-67-185-89-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #wikipedia-en ["Leaving"]
18:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> yay this officialy got wierd!
18:00 < Tony_Sidaway> IShadowed doesn't exactly have a giggly persoality. It's like having a grump wander in and shout random stuff.
18:00 < IShadowed> Well that's an ironic statement coming from Tony_Sidaway
18:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway so IShadowed is dragonborn?
18:01 < TeeTylerToe> this is one of the more hostile channels I've ever been in
18:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> no this is friendly normally
18:01 < Tony_Sidaway> I officially pronounced IShadowed to have failed the Eliza test on the basis of the past few commments.
18:01 < Dagny> It's not usually this hostile, really.
18:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we normally talk about pokemon
18:02 < Tony_Sidaway> It's a bit more hostile than I remember it, but then ToAruShiroiNeko and I are from gentler times.
18:02 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Quit: google]
18:02 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: ping!
18:02 < IShadowed> Perhaps when people wouldn't object to your bullshit
18:02 < SteveMobile> jeremyb: Pong
18:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mmm
18:03 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: hey!
18:03 -!- TheButterZone [~TheButter@ip72-220-147-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #wikipedia-en []
18:03 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: researcher?
18:03 < SteveMobile> Yo
18:03 < SteveMobile> Lemme see
18:03 < Tony_Sidaway> I don't think any good can come from my taking notice of IShadowed so I've popped her into the ignore file alongside that other bloke who used to rant at me.
18:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway we used to have spambots back then though
18:03 < IShadowed> Success.jpg
18:03 < SteveMobile> Nope still don't have it jeremyb
18:03 < Tony_Sidaway> Or is it he? Whatever.
18:03 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: what's your name anyway?
18:03 -!- John_Smith [~johnsmith@97-120-246-252.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:03 < SteveMobile> Steven Zhang :p
18:03 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: user name?
18:03 < SteveMobile> I met you at wikimania -_-
18:04 -!- quanticle|away [~quanticle@quanticle.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Changing host]
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18:04 < SteveMobile> Oh for the researcher bit?
18:04 < jeremyb> yes
18:04 -!- John_Smith is now known as Guest48628
18:04 < ToAruShiroiNeko> SteveMobile is THE Zhang
18:04 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:04 -!- quanticle|away is now known as quanticle
18:04 < SteveMobile> Szhang (WMF)
18:04 < jeremyb> good
18:04 < SteveMobile> Hm?
18:04 -!- Dagny [~missrain@wikipedia/OohBunnies] has left #wikipedia-en []
18:05 < Tony_Sidaway> Anyway what I was saying is that you don't need to make some new form of money, we're already stuck with currency, it's all over the place.
18:06 < Tony_Sidaway> The only reason people think it's a good reason to create a currency (and they're right on this) is that getting in on a currency early can be pretty handy.
18:06 < SteveMobile> jeremyb: Were you adding it?
18:06 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: i see someone made you split accounts ;)
18:06 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: i can't
18:06 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:06 < SteveMobile> jeremyb: Lol yea
18:06 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: i gave you a huge list of people that counld add it. dartar is one of them ;)
18:06 < Tony_Sidaway> Who else is left over from the elder days?
18:07 < Tony_Sidaway> ToAruShiroiNeko I think you were around. There was that bloke Shub Niggurath, and Dragonfly6-7 of course.
18:07 < Tony_Sidaway> James-F
18:08 < Tony_Sidaway> Can't remember anybody else who might remember it.
18:08 < SteveMobile> jeremyb: Are any of them online
18:08 -!- maid is now known as tyime
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18:09 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Shub Niggurath?
18:09 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: well idk how you prove that you're supposed to have it...
18:10 < Tony_Sidaway> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shub-Niggurath
18:10 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: the list is https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:GlobalUsers&offset=&limit=100&username=&group=Staff&creationSort=1
18:10 < Tony_Sidaway> Or maybe that was just a dream.
18:10 < SoapX> isounds like a Lovecraft nam
18:10 < SoapX> oh ha
18:10 < SoapX> it *is* lovecraft
18:10 < SoapX> i thought it was Babylonian mythology
18:10 < Tony_Sidaway> Yes, I was joking. We don't go that far back.
18:10 -!- Tiptoety is now known as Tiptoety|away
18:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Love-craft -> Baby-lonian mythology
18:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> contrived pun!
18:11 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Pharos] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:11 < SoapX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shub-Niggurath.jpg <--- i see some tiny little things in the middle of the picture .... are those *people*?
18:12 < Tony_Sidaway> Chthulu used to tell us some wonderful stories about old Shub, but we doubted even he had ever met her. I think he was just name-dropping. The elder gods were so status-conscious.
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18:13 < SoapX> speaking of Lovecraft
18:13 < SoapX> should this page be deleted? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox/potato
18:13 < Pharos> no, it's a great page
18:13 < SoapX> i know the sandbox is pretty much a free-for-all but I dont know if its OK to make random subpages
18:14 < Pharos> FAC it!
18:14 -!- Guest48628 [~johnsmith@97-120-246-252.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi]
18:14 < jeremyb> one for each debian release!
18:14 < Pharos> that's what she said
18:14 -!- ChrisGualtieri [47eae49b@wikipedia/ChrisGualtieri] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:15 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has quit [Quit: zZzzZzzZzz!]
18:15 < ChrisGualtieri> Wow no Dcoetzee
18:15 < jeremyb> > buzz, rex, bo, hamm, slink, potato, woody, sarge, etch, lenny, squeeze, wheezy
18:16 < SoapX> thoare the names of the debian releases? lol
18:16 < SoapX> what's the pattern?
18:16 < SoapX> are those Toy Story names?
18:16 * SoapX knows nothing about modern culture : x
18:16 * SoapX should have used *"* for embarrassment, : x looks like Im kissing the screen
18:16 < Pharos> i don't think debian releases count as popular culture
18:17 < SoapX> aha
18:17 < SoapX> it is Toy Sotry
18:18 < Tony_Sidaway> Ah instance of hackage, involving an exchange stupid enough to still use MD5 as a password hash: "Within minutes the price rebounded to over $15 before Mt. Gox shut down their exchange and canceled all trades that happened during the hacking period." Well this looks to me like currency regulation.
18:18 < SoapX> I only knew 2 of them (Woody and Buzz) and I just assumed
18:18 < BarkingFish> Guys - serious question for a bit. What is Wikipedia like on notability towards items of art?
18:18 < SoapX> the infamous bitcoin hack of June 2011
18:18 < SoapX> I remember that
18:18 < Tony_Sidaway> The exchange simple arrogated to itself the right to ignore all transactions in a period, irrespective of their validity.
18:18 < Pharos> barkingfdish: generous
18:19 < BarkingFish> I just found a pic of a piece of art here, while I was researching Sydney for something I wanted, and I note that it doesn't exist on wp. I'd like to include it, but I don't know where to start - never done an "art"icle like this.
18:19 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:19 -!- iizyrt [~crazilon@cpe-72-190-48-79.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:19 < Pharos> go for it!
18:20 < Pharos> you can start with a description, year of creation, and artrist ;)
18:20 < jorm> hurf hurf hurf.
18:20 -!- SteveMobile [~SteveMobi@wikimedia/Steven-Zhang] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi]
18:20 < BarkingFish> It's a piece called "Little Boy Lost" by Paul Trefry, and it's about the most realistic sculpture I've ever seen in my life. If I'd seen this in its original setting, I'd probably have gone to ask what was wrong with the kid. It's scary realistic.
18:21 -!- Shaded_ [~Shaded@unaffiliated/shaded] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:21 < BarkingFish> http://images.quickblogcast.com/7/2/0/4/1/224199-214027/LittleBoyLostbyPaulTrefry.jpg?a=58
18:21 < BarkingFish> What do you think?
18:22 < Tony_Sidaway> "In June 2011, Symantec warned about the possibility of botnets engaging in covert "mining" of bitcoins (unauthorized use of computer resources to generate bitcoins)." Duh. This will aways be a problem, I think. It's so easy to trick a third party into mining bitcoins for you.
18:22 < Pharos> go ahead, mr fish
18:22 < Pharos> make sure to include an art review if you get find one!
18:22 < BarkingFish> OK, Pharos - will do. But for a moment, just indulge me - if you'd not known that was a sculpture, would you have mistaken it for a real kid?
18:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Imagine Bill Gates installing a bitcoin miner into the http fetch sequence in IE. He'd flood the market.
18:23 < Frood> it's more ethical than other ways malware devs get money...
18:23 < Pharos> i would have!
18:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Not it bloody isn't.
18:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Anyway bed time for me.
18:23 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:23 < Frood> ...yes it is...
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18:24 < Pharos> except i think the boy is a giant
18:25 < Pharos> so, that might clue ,me in
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18:25 < SoapX> thats a sculplture?
18:25 < Pharos> yes
18:26 -!- Shaded [~Shaded@unaffiliated/shaded] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:26 < SoapX> except for the eyes that looks pretty realistic
18:26 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:26 < SoapX> his belly's a bit off center too I guess
18:26 < SoapX> and arms short
18:26 < SoapX> buuut
18:26 < SoapX> still
18:26 < SoapX> those are probably all on purpose
18:26 < TeeTylerToe> are more than half the coins still unmined?
18:26 < Pharos> and he's a giant!
18:27 -!- Shaded_ [~Shaded@unaffiliated/shaded] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:27 < TeeTylerToe> also, I think Microsoft's probably got a couple idle Hz in various dark corners
18:29 -!- SteveMobile [~SteveMobi@wikimedia/Steven-Zhang] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:31 < ChrisGualtieri> I still need a coder bad >.> Need plugin or standalone program creation for wikipedia... please assist. :o
18:32 < TeeTylerToe> what kind of plugin?
18:32 < ChrisGualtieri> Typochecker for one... Not Regex
18:33 < TeeTylerToe> There are typo bots
18:33 < TeeTylerToe> or do you mean for when you edit yourself?
18:33 < TeeTylerToe> both firefox and chrome have built in autocorrect
18:33 < TeeTylerToe> well, they underline misspelled words
18:33 < ChrisGualtieri> Not Typoscan, but one that is superior then Regex and uses something like Firefox, but catches grammar and such
18:34 < BarkingFish> SoapX, yep - the sculpture was originally intended to be that of a toddler, lost on the beach at Bondi - it was made as part of an exhibition on the Bondi and Tamarama beaches in Waverly, but it was originally intended to be totally in the nude - the exhibition organisers objected, and forced Paul Trefry to put him in swimmers.
18:34 < BarkingFish> He said he didn't see the problem - Bondi and Tamarama are full of kids in the birthday outfit during summer, to his way of thinking, what was wrong with it...
18:35 < BarkingFish> apparently it kicked up a hell of a fuss, even the Sydney Morning Herald covered it
18:36 < BarkingFish> now I have a problem. I can't find a bloody infobox for this article... I found Infobox artwork, but by the look of the layout, that's intended for paintings. I can't find one for sculpture anywhere
18:36 < SoapX> Australia
18:36 < SteveMobile> jorm: Hey you around?
18:37 < Pharos> you don't need an infobox
18:37 < jorm> yeah. what's up?
18:37 < BarkingFish> k
18:37 < ChrisGualtieri> TeeTylerToe: You work with those plugins or such?
18:37 < jeremyb> SteveMobile: hooked one!
18:37 < BarkingFish> also, I hope I can use the pic of the sculpture as fair use, or i'm shot
18:38 < SteveMobile> jorm: Dario said he put in a request for the researcher user group to be added to my staff account
18:38 < SteveMobile> But jeremyb says its not done thru bugzilla, can be done by any staffer
18:38 < jeremyb> jorm: dartar is himself able to grant the bit!
18:38 -!- Shaded [~Shaded@unaffiliated/shaded] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
18:38 < SteveMobile> And can't seem to find Dario anywhere :-)
18:39 < SteveMobile> Lol yeah -_-
18:39 < jorm> send him an email. i'm not touching anyone's user rights.
18:39 < jorm> except on mediawiki.org, where i'm a rightfully elected admin.
18:39 < jeremyb> big surprise ;)
18:39 < jeremyb> jorm: testwiki? test2wiki ?
18:39 -!- Seahorse [~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:41 < SteveMobile> Okay :-)
18:41 -!- LtNOWIS [~Simon@12.152.53.220] has joined #wikipedia-en
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18:43 < Isarra> Seeing an eyesore on a computer screen isn't supposed to literally hurt, is it?
18:44 < jorm> i don't have any rights on testwikis, i think.
18:44 < jorm> since they're outside of SUL.
18:44 < jeremyb> jorm: they are SUL'd
18:45 < jorm> seriously? huh.
18:45 < jorm> well. still. not touching any of that.
18:46 < jeremyb> https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/jorm_%28WMF%29?limit=1
18:46 < jeremyb> you are an admin there. not a crat apparently
18:46 * jeremyb isn't asking you too ;)
18:47 < jeremyb> jorm: test is tied to one apache that's only for test. test2 is a regular cluster wiki (all apaches)
18:49 < jorm> if it's SUL'd, i'm more than an admin there. i'm admin by grant by someone else.
18:49 < jeremyb> it's SUL
18:49 < jeremyb> but you're a local sysop too
18:49 < jorm> then i have +staff on it.
18:50 < jeremyb> also, test2 must be one of the cluster's current versions. for APC and disk space etc. otoh, test can be any version you like (it's got it's own box so APC isn't an issue cause it's just one codebase for the box. and it's not sync'd out to test, it's just mounted straight from NFS (fenari))
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18:52 < IDoH> Hey
18:53 < jeremyb> do you record the dreams?
18:53 < IDoH> Who? Me?
18:53 < jeremyb> yes
18:53 -!- SteveMobile [~SteveMobi@wikimedia/Steven-Zhang] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi]
18:54 < IDoH> Ha ha, no
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18:56 < BarkingFish> Wth? I knew cooking jewish food was strict, but that just opened my eyes. I know you're not allowed to cook meat and dairy in the same oven or same dish, but I didn't know that you couldn't serve them at the same damn meal!!
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18:57 < BarkingFish> I just found this out - if I cooked roast lamb as a kosher lunch, and did vegetables and mashed potato, I couldn't put butter or milk into the potato...wtf people? You're missing out, seriously :)
18:58 < mareklug> kosher laws stipulate 6 hour pause between ingesting dairy and meat afaik
19:00 -!- quanticle|away is now known as quanticle
19:00 -!- ceradon is now known as Don_Of_Cera
19:01 < jorm> oh yeah.
19:01 < Lubaf> Cookie Monster sings "God's Away on Business": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5X4N2exOsU
19:01 < jorm> wikimania haifa totally opened my eyes to the whole kosher thing.
19:01 < jorm> they have a mcdonald's there, right? two different kitchens..
19:02 < jorm> if you want a cheeseburger, you get the burger from one place. and then you go to the other and get the cheese.
19:02 < jorm> and then you assemble it yourself.
19:02 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Pharos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:02 < BarkingFish> mareklug, wow. That's seriously tight stuff. I understand some of the kosher / kashrut thing - like you have 2 completely seperate sets of kitchenware, utensils, cookers, microwaves, etc for doing meat and dairy
19:03 < BarkingFish> but I didn't realize it was so tight down as to stipulating how long you had to wait between eating things.
19:03 < IDoH> It's all a part of not questioning G-d, I suppose
19:04 < mareklug> maybe in their climate you got serious runs doing milk and meat at the same time and it evolved that way
19:04 -!- Gfoley4 [~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:05 < BarkingFish> I understand that, IDoH - it amazes me. I would miss one of my favorite dishes if I had to eat Kosher. No more Spaghetti and Meatballs with Cheese.
19:05 < Isarra> Yellow is evil.
19:05 < SoapX> and no more pork !!!
19:05 < Isarra> Yellow is a horrible, terrible colour.
19:05 < Isarra> It's horrible.
19:05 < Isarra> Evil.
19:05 < IDoH> mareklug: Perhaps
19:05 < Isarra> Hateful.
19:05 < Isarra> We should kill yellow.
19:05 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:05 < haggis> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/562735_348013011948027_69751202_n.jpg
19:05 < BarkingFish> mareklug, oh, I know where it came from - it's a verse in Leviticus - "Thou shalt not cook a kid in the milk of its mother"
19:05 < IDoH> Barkingfish: It would be a bit easier for me, because I'm vegetarian.
19:05 < BarkingFish> became the basis for the strict separation of meat and dairy
19:06 < IDoH> Oh, wow
19:06 < SoapX> hmmm .... Reuben is a Jewish na,e
19:06 < SoapX> the goat milk thing was a common ritual in Middle Eastern pagan cultures, I think
19:07 < SoapX> Not so much for health reasons as for just setting themselves apart from all the other cultures
19:07 < SoapX> I wasnt aware that it had expanded to keeping all dairy and meat separate during cooking, though
19:07 < BarkingFish> It was also done to soak the strong game flavor of goat out of the meat - soaking in milk is a common way to desalt preserved meats and to take out strong flavors
19:08 < SoapX> I see
19:08 -!- delirious is now known as Dawn_of_Sarah
19:08 < BarkingFish> Not just during cooking, SoapX - prior to cooking too. You have 2 fridges in your kitchen
19:08 < BarkingFish> One for dairy, one for meat
19:11 < IDoH> Wow
19:13 -!- Jeske_Merensky [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has quit [Quit: Eek! Yoshi! *flees*]
19:14 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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19:17 < BarkingFish> I will be fair with you - iirc, in a properly kosher kitchen, you have 2 of everything.
19:17 -!- Rjd0060 [~Ryan@wikimedia/Rjd0060] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:17 < BarkingFish> 2 dishwashers, 2 cookers, 2 microwaves, 2 sets of cutlery and crockery, 2 sinks, 2 sets of dishcloths or tea-towels, literally the whole thing is a two part operation
19:18 < mareklug> i also seem to remember that a rabbi is to periodically inspect it
19:19 < BarkingFish> yes - usually a member of the kosherette (sp?) will come every so often to check you're doing everything right
19:19 < Peter-C> Holy crap, 50% of pedestrians who die are intoxicated
19:20 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Pharos] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:20 < IDoH> Hey Pharos
19:20 < IDoH> Peter-C, I'm not surprised to hear that, actually
19:20 -!- Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
19:21 -!- Dawn_of_Sarah is now known as [[Dr_Pepper]]
19:21 < Peter-C> I am not suprised it high, but that’s 1/2
19:22 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
19:22 < Pharos> omg, this bubble wrap *does not pop*
19:24 < Guerillero> wut
19:24 < Pharos> it's a miracle of modern science
19:25 < Dragonfly6-7> Pharos - no, you're just weak.
19:25 < Dragonfly6-7> WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAK.
19:25 < BarkingFish> Anyone good with image licensing? I'm in the upload wizard, with a copyrighted pic to upload, claiming fair use - how the fuck do I license it?
19:25 < BarkingFish> I don't know the image license tag
19:26 < Pharos> you just push the bubble in, and it gives without breaking
19:26 < Pharos> it's taoist bubble wrap
19:26 < BarkingFish> I have categorized it in the wizard as "This is a depiction of a copyrighted three-dimensional work or building, which is the object of discussion in an article."
19:26 < Peter-C> WHOO clubbing! http://i.imgur.com/tX4W6.gif
19:26 < BarkingFish> it's under the non-free fair use section
19:27 < mareklug> still can't get over Rapid City's Becky Hammon playing for Russia
19:27 < Pharos> yes, it is fair use
19:28 -!- IDoH [~I@wikipedia/I-dream-of-horses] has left #wikipedia-en []
19:28 < Pharos> but make sure you write a rationale
19:28 < Pharos> i would play for russia
19:28 < BarkingFish> Yeah, well the wizard is asking this: Name the license or describe the public domain status, adding any necessary evidence to make the licensing status verifiable. <Pharos
19:28 < Pharos> you shouldn't upload on commons
19:28 < BarkingFish> i don't have to verify that it's copyrighted, surely...
19:29 < BarkingFish> I'm not, this is on enwp using the File Upload Wizard
19:29 < Pharos> say the license is copyrighted by x
19:30 -!- iizyrt [~crazilon@cpe-72-190-48-79.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
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19:30 < Shearonink_gone> mareklug: yeah that is kind of odd
19:31 < Peter-C> Dragonfly6-7 - poke
19:31 < mareklug> it's cuz she got snubbed for the isa team some years ago.
19:31 < Shearonink_gone> especially when she said "I love my country. I love our national anthem. It absolutely gives me chills sometimes. I feel honored to be an American, to be from America because of what we stand for
19:31 < Shearonink_gone> mmhmm
19:31 < Peter-C> Do you think [[avulsion]] and [[avulsion injury]] should be merged Dragonfly6-7
19:35 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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19:40 < Pharos> russia stands fir something too!
19:40 < mareklug> "Becky Hammon recorded 19 points and 5 dimes to guide Russia past Turkey, 66-63, in Tuesday’s women’s basketball quarterfinals at the Basketball Arena in Olympic Park." <-- what is a dime? I never heard that in ball context
19:40 < TeeTylerToe> cronyism, and plutocracy?
19:40 -!- Fredddie [~Eiddderf@wikipedia/Fredddie] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:42 < OlEnglish> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gangsta_rap&diff=prev&oldid=506232688
19:42 < OlEnglish> notuice the irony in that revert
19:42 < OlEnglish> notice
19:42 < SigmaWP> lol
19:42 < Pharos> i think now it's mostly jailing punk girl bsands
19:42 < TeeTylerToe> maybe literally 5 dimes she found maybe in the bleechers and donated to russia
19:43 < Pharos> *bands
19:43 < mareklug> the dispatch is written by "4E Sports Staff". I wonder if this is british usage
19:44 < Fredddie> is there a template for citing the journal of the house of representatives?
19:44 < Pharos> i have a hard time imagining as country that would accept me for their olympic team
19:44 < Fredddie> cite journal doesn't seem to cut it
19:45 < TeeTylerToe> If you have a burqua you could try out for saudi arabia
19:45 -!- Antonorsi is now known as Anto|away
19:46 < mareklug> TeeTylerToe: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_an_assist_called_a_'dime'_in_basketball
19:47 < Pharos> maybe some really tiny poor country could use me if i paid for some dressage training
19:47 < Pharos> surely the rmoneys would help out
19:47 < mareklug> the persian gulf arab states have bought a tone of African runners
19:47 < Pharos> *romneys
19:48 < Pharos> yes, but those African runners have talent
19:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dime is 10 us cents
19:48 < Pharos> this is not a luxury i possesss
19:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I think they play with the coin rather than the ball
19:50 < Pharos> with shooting, there is substantial luck involved\
19:50 -!- Fredddie [~Eiddderf@wikipedia/Fredddie] has left #wikipedia-en []
19:50 < Pharos> so i could always pretend i'm having a bad day
19:50 < Pharos> and i don't have to look especially athletic
19:52 < Shearonink_gone> maybe a dime is an assist
19:52 -!- queen [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:52 < BarkingFish> Pharos - just as a start, what do you think? I've only stubbed this for now, but the image is all set up nicely. The upload wizard does a better fucking job than I do manually :)
19:52 < BarkingFish> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy_Lost_(sculpture)
19:53 -!- Matthew_ [~matthewrb@wikipedia/matthewrbowker] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:53 -!- tyime [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:53 -!- queen is now known as tyime
19:54 < Pharos> it's probably silicone, not silicon
19:54 -!- Keegan [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Keegan] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:54 < BarkingFish> oops
19:54 < Pharos> is it permanent?
19:54 < BarkingFish> no
19:54 < Pharos> then mention how long it was up
19:55 < Pharos> also, mention the conmtroversy
19:55 < BarkingFish> it's not there anymore, it was made for a summer exhibition in 2009, called Sculpture by the Sea
19:55 < Pharos> and the dimensions
19:55 < Pharos> it looked larger than life-size
19:55 < BarkingFish> yeah, that's something I'll have to mail the artist about, I don't know how big it actually way
19:55 < BarkingFish> photo might be out of perspective
19:56 < Pharos> the google images had it with people nearby
19:56 < Pharos> it looked about 6 feet
19:56 < BarkingFish> 0.0
19:57 < Pharos> yeah, it was pretty noticeable
19:57 < Pharos> ie taller thann most of the adults posing with it
19:58 < BarkingFish> holy shit. I was under the impression it was meant to be life sized... i got some work to do with this one.
19:59 < BarkingFish> Yeah, i just found this too - this is what it was *meant* too look like - before the exhibition organizers got to it
19:59 < BarkingFish> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zkzpo6qNsTI/SvO1V-j9OdI/AAAAAAAADzE/s-GVmnKVKBE/s400/_MG_8444.jpg
19:59 < BarkingFish> i wonder if I could upload that too - since it was the original intention of the artist who created the piece
19:59 < BarkingFish> and fuck yeah, well over 5ft tall.
20:00 < SoapX> that would cause chaos if Larry Sanger or any of the others saw it
20:01 < BarkingFish> why? It's a piece of artwork.
20:01 < BarkingFish> Don't tell me that would get hit by the whole "no nude kids" bullshit.
20:01 < SoapX> yes
20:01 < BarkingFish> It's fucking silicone rubber and fiberglass ffs
20:01 < SoapX> thats what the images we used to have that got deleted were
20:01 < SoapX> paintings and other artistic works
20:02 -!- Shearonink_gone [62a9f0a1@wikipedia/Shearonink] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:02 * BarkingFish mumbles about people going WAY too fucking far with overzealous bullshit
20:03 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
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20:04 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:05 < BarkingFish> i wonder if they would allow a censored version of that image to be uploaded, with the genitalia blacked out - although then again, wikipedia is not censored. right? :P
20:06 -!- Lydia_WMDE [~lydia@quassel.jefferai.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:06 < BarkingFish> I might very well put that question to JW and see what he suggests, possibly passing it to counsel, idk.
20:07 < RD> OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN
20:07 < BarkingFish> RD - the sculpture in that image is not how the artist created the work - it's how the organizers of the exhibition forced him to display it
20:09 < BarkingFish> the original intention was to give the sculpture that extra sense of vulnerability, of being lost, alone, and scared - Paul Trefry intended it to be how you see in the link I posted above.
20:10 < Guerillero> my newest project is done :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mermaid_%28ballad%29
20:10 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:11 < BarkingFish> The artist himself is quoted as having said "I live right near Bondi, it's common to see kids running around naked on the beach, that's what i intended to capture - that extra vulnerability of one of those children, lost, scared and alone."
20:11 -!- WilliamH_UK [~WilliamH_@Wikipedia/WilliamH] has quit []
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20:13 -!- Magog_the_Ogre [~Magog_the@c-98-235-166-47.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:13 -!- Magog_the_Ogre [~Magog_the@c-98-235-166-47.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
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20:14 < Pharos> jimbo and everyone else is already quite aware of the sanger silliness
20:14 -!- FastLizard4|zZzZ is now known as FastLizard4
20:14 -!- localhost [~chris@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:15 < BarkingFish> Yeah, what I want is a definitive yay or nay as to uploading a censored version of that picture, Pharos - obviously a totally uncensored one would be an outright "no"
20:15 -!- localhost [~chris@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:15 < BarkingFish> i want consideration to permit an artistic depiction with no open display of genitalia
20:15 -!- Lubaf [~chatzilla@c-67-188-188-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
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20:16 < Pharos> to me, it's a non-issue
20:16 < Pharos> i's onbiously not a pornmogtraphic work
20:16 < BarkingFish> yeah, to sanger unfortunately, it's probably not
20:16 < Pharos> all things being equal, a censored image just looks siller
20:17 < Pharos> *sillier
20:17 < Pharos> i don't think sanger really believes this, btw :P
20:18 -!- peteforsyth [~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:18 < Pharos> btw, notice this is oinly the third articke in category:australian sculpture!
20:18 -!- BlackBeast [~chatzilla@wikimedia/BlackBeast] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
20:19 < mareklug> surely there must be sculpture all ove oz. gotta get the editors out and about
20:21 < GorillaWarfare> Any Commons admins about?
20:21 < jorm> isn't australia entirely peopled with criminals?
20:21 < SoapX> logan is here
20:21 < jorm> those aren't sculptors.
20:21 < GorillaWarfare> Logan_: Ping
20:21 < Logan_> Hello.
20:22 < GorillaWarfare> Logan_: Would you please revdel the earlier upload of http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pentagon-Papers-Part_I.djvu
20:23 < GorillaWarfare> I removed some copyrighted text in the newer revision
20:23 < TeeTylerToe> They got rid of the picture of the 14 year old girl's breast for the article on advanced breast growth?
20:23 -!- la_pianista is now known as pianista|afk
20:23 < GorillaWarfare> So the previous one should probably be removed
20:23 < Logan_> Of course.
20:23 < GorillaWarfare> Thank you much
20:24 < Logan_> GorillaWarfare: Done.
20:24 < GorillaWarfare> :) Ta
20:25 -!- mareklug [~mareklug@wikipedia/mareklug] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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20:26 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has quit [Quit: GorillaWarfare]
20:26 -!- iizyrt [~crazilon@cpe-72-190-48-79.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:26 < TeeTylerToe> "In order for it to be viewed as medical it has to display unpleasant deformity (deformity can never be pleasant!)."
20:28 -!- diegogrez [diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:29 < mareklug> considering that Category:Australian sculptors has 79 entries, surely they collectively did more than 3 notable pieces
20:29 -!- Topher385 [629dc974@wikipedia/Topher385] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:29 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20:30 -!- LtNOWIS [~Simon@12.152.53.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:30 < BarkingFish> yet I notice the sculptor mentioned in this article, Paul Trefry, is redlinked.
20:30 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:30 < BarkingFish> That's something else I will probably have to fix once I expand the main article
20:31 < Isarra> Should I be concerned about edits like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wizard101&diff=506334707&oldid=506334509
20:32 < jorm> is your name austin lifespear?
20:32 -!- Gfoley4 [~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4] has quit [Quit: !]
20:32 -!- iizyrt [~crazilon@cpe-72-190-48-79.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:32 < Isarra> Don't make me out myself!
20:32 < haggis> !admin
20:32 * Isarra runs away.
20:33 < DeltaQuad> kinda busy...
20:33 < haggis> DeltaQuad: are you os?
20:33 < haggis> Fluff|away: are you os?
20:33 < haggis> oh, you are
20:33 < DeltaQuad> no /me points to Fluff|away
20:33 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:33 < haggis> DeltaQuad: can you do two revdels
20:33 < Pharos> it looks mostly harmless
20:33 < Isarra> Hey guys, I made a thousand edits!
20:33 * Isarra emits an aura of noobiness.
20:34 -!- SoapX [Soap@d-24-233-115-212.cpe.metrocast.net] has quit [Quit: bed]
20:34 < Keegan> gj Isarra
20:34 < Isarra> Thank you, Keegan.
20:34 * Keegan only has about 14k in seven years >_>
20:34 < DeltaQuad> Keegan: mind taking the request from haggis?
20:34 < Jasper_Deng> As for the revdel it's borderline attack
20:34 < Isarra> Only, eh?
20:34 < haggis> Keegan: I have more in a day
20:34 < Keegan> Isarra: Considering half came in the first year...
20:35 < Isarra> Blimey.
20:35 < Keegan> I average about a thousand a year
20:35 < Keegan> I DO OTHER STUFF OKAY
20:35 < Keegan> haggis, pm the link
20:35 < haggis> i did 25k edits when i was sleeping
20:35 < jorm> i don't have a thousand edits.
20:35 < jorm> i actually have no idea how many i have.
20:35 < Keegan> jorm: You don't have to. You design.
20:36 < jorm> oh, i know. i serve the Mission in other ways.
20:36 < jorm> and i'm cool with that.
20:36 -!- Tanvir [~tanvir@wikimedia/wikitanvir] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:36 < Isarra> I'm just in hiding here.
20:36 < Isarra> At least you're trying to help and such.
20:37 * Isarra hides behind Keegan.
20:37 < haggis> jorm: you should get a wikipedia globe tattooed on your forehead
20:37 < haggis> it'd be hardcor
20:37 < Isarra> haggis: Nou.
20:37 < jorm> i already got a wikipedia tattoo.
20:38 < haggis> no barnstars
20:38 < Isarra> Barnstars are better.
20:38 < haggis> you can just say "i like scuba diving"
20:38 < Isarra> But why would he?
20:38 < haggis> and say the tattooer was dumb and didn't know what a seastar looked like.
20:38 < haggis> :-)
20:39 < Isarra> Do you know what a seastar looks like? Kind of a somewhat different shape.
20:39 < Isarra> And shading. Very different shading.
20:39 < haggis> Isarra: er,
20:39 * haggis scuba dives
20:39 < BarkingFish> jeebers allah and buddha. I just realized it's fast approaching 4.40am! Damn, I should have been asleep ages ago.
20:39 < BarkingFish> Night all.
20:39 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@openglobe/BarkingFish] has quit [Quit: I used to be a werewolf, but I'm alright nooooOOOOOOOOWWWWWW! :)]
20:39 < haggis> barkno
20:39 < haggis> no
20:39 < haggis> :(
20:39 -!- pianista|afk is now known as la_pianista
20:39 < Isarra> Well, I don't, so neener.
20:40 -!- mareklug [~mareklug@wikipedia/mareklug] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:40 * Isarra affixes an octopus to haggis' head.
20:40 < haggis> Isarra: you're not supposed to go near them!
20:40 < haggis> they can attach to you, and you run out of air
20:40 < haggis> and then you die
20:41 < Logan_> fuck
20:41 < Logan_> Colbert just mentioned Wikipedia
20:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra I used to be a wikipedian like you, then I had taken a Logan_ to the knee
20:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Logan_ we should sue him
20:41 < Logan_> he showed a Fox report about how Sarah Palin became VP and had 68 changes the day before on the article
20:41 < Logan_> which was more than the rest
20:41 < ItzExor> haha logan
20:41 < ItzExor> i was about to say that
20:41 < haggis> Logan_: watch better tv.
20:42 < TeeTylerToe> that's what NPR said
20:42 < Logan_> so now he's telling everyone to edit their favorite VP as many times as possible
20:42 < ItzExor> haggis: no
20:42 -!- Guerillero [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Guerillero] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]]
20:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> so does the comically rich candidate have a running mate?
20:42 < Logan_> somebody should probably protect the potential VP articles
20:42 -!- Frood is now known as Froodsleep
20:43 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20:43 < TeeTylerToe> Romney has the highest polling running mate. Generic republican
20:43 < Logan_> !admin
20:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Logan_ which is practically every article
20:43 -!- mareklug [~mareklug@wikipedia/mareklug] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:43 * DeltaQuad sighs
20:43 < DeltaQuad> what?
20:43 < Logan_> see above
20:43 < Logan_> protect every single human
20:43 < DeltaQuad> what above >_> I don't have time
20:43 < Logan_> who can serve as a candidate for VP for Mitt Romney
20:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> human?
20:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> animals too
20:43 < RD> {{Done}}
20:43 < DeltaQuad> are you serious?
20:43 < Logan_> and Rafalca
20:43 < ItzExor> colbert mentioned wiki
20:43 < Logan_> his wife's horse
20:43 < Logan_> otherwise it will become VP
20:43 < ItzExor> and told people to edit potential vp candidate pages
20:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I think even plants should be protected
20:43 < DeltaQuad> Logan_: i'm actually trying to do shit...
20:44 < Logan_> that's disgusting
20:44 < Logan_> behave, DeltaQuad
20:44 -!- DeltaQuad [~quassel@wikipedia/DeltaQuad] has left #wikipedia-en ["fml"]
20:44 < TeeTylerToe> while his wife's horse polls better than any actual republican candidate, generic republican polls even higher
20:44 < Isarra> ToAruShiroiNeko: You took it after being a wikipedian? At least you managed something before the event.
20:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra it was a very brief existence
20:44 < mareklug> Logan_: it would be exciting if he had the balls to pick Condi Rice
20:45 < Logan_> it would
20:45 < Logan_> it would be even more exciting if he picked his wife's horse
20:45 -!- Wehwalt [4462af34@wikipedia/Wehwalt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I think he should pick George W. Bush
20:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> perfect VP
20:45 < jorm> man. did i look away and have someone talk shit about one of my tattoos?
20:45 < mareklug> well, he could pick Condi on Rafalca
20:45 < Matthew_> That would be an interesting legal grey area, ToAruShiroiNeko...
20:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> not really
20:46 < TeeTylerToe> do you have a tattoo of rafalka?
20:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> he can be anything but pres
20:46 < ChrisGualtieri> I'ma go make a sandwich till this blows over >.>
20:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> should the president get assassinated (really who would shoot romney) then it may be an issue
20:46 < TeeTylerToe> actually a horse was a senator for a short time or something. Or maybe a senator's estate went to a horse I forget
20:46 < Matthew_> ToAruShiroiNeko: But the precident hasn't been set, so the democrats will jump on it...
20:46 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> democrats would probably screw that up too
20:47 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Pharos] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120731150526]]
20:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Logan_ I propose you be the VP candidate
20:47 < Logan_> I'm down with that.
20:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> why?
20:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> your political career would be over
20:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> everyone knows romney will loose
20:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> btw what kind of a poll has "generic republican" as an option
20:49 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:50 < TeeTylerToe> I think it's an extrapolation of "would you vote for a democratic or republican president?"
20:50 < TeeTylerToe> or maybe just party affiliation
20:50 -!- Bruvtakesover [~kiewii@wikipedia/bruvtakesover] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120201153158]]
20:51 -!- Bruvtakesover [~kiewii@wikipedia/bruvtakesover] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TeeTylerToe I dont think so
20:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I believe they had a few names and that as an option
20:51 * Isarra kidnaps Logan_.
20:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> supposed to be "no pref" probably
20:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Logan_ is no kid
20:52 * Isarra catnaps ToAruShiroiNeko.
20:52 * ToAruShiroiNeko naps
20:52 * haggis dancinghologram(not nap)shutdowns ToAruShiroiNeko
20:52 * Isarra nops.
20:52 < haggis> :-P
20:53 < TeeTylerToe> generic republican got something more than 50% of the vote iirc
20:53 -!- Frood [~Frood@50-83-24-112.client.mchsi.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:53 -!- Frood [~Frood@50-83-24-112.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Changing host]
20:53 -!- Frood [~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> yes
20:53 < Isarra> RfCs are weird.
20:53 < Isarra> WEIRD!
20:53 * Isarra runs away screaming.
20:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> RfC = Requests for Confussion
20:54 < Isarra> Among other things.
20:54 < TeeTylerToe> most of the stuff in the back office of wikipedia is very confusing
20:54 < iizyrt> RfL: Requests for Lyrithya
20:54 < Isarra> Like commiserating and cabaling.
20:54 < TeeTylerToe> rfu, request for unobtanium
20:54 < iizyrt> RfC = Requests for Cabal
20:55 < Isarra> Yes, hello.
20:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> RfC = Requests for C**k
20:55 < TeeTylerToe> are there any clear flowcharts for things like dispute resolution or anything?
20:55 < iizyrt> You you've changed names again Isarra?
20:55 -!- Froodsleep [~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:55 < Isarra> I've been Isarra for two years.
20:56 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:56 < Isarra> Granted I never actually did anything until much more recently, but I wouldn't call this a namechange.
20:56 < iizyrt> And you've been Lyrithya and Atyria and Hydra-high-lean and PIGGY
20:56 < SigmaWP> TeeTylerToe: Link to deletion discussion for the aforementioned 14 year old's image of advanced breast growth?
20:56 < iizyrt> HI SIGMA!
20:56 -!- AndrewN [~Andrew@wikimedia/AndrewN] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:56 < TeeTylerToe> I think it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hypertrophy_of_breast#Images
20:57 < Isarra> Thank you, sinebot, for causing the yellow banner of friendship to pop up for nothing. I really appreciate it.
20:57 < iizyrt> Isarra: how you you spell your bots' name
20:57 < SigmaWP> That's not a deletion discussion
20:57 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:57 < SigmaWP> Oh well
20:57 -!- Isarra [~urgh@wikimedia/Isarra] has quit [Changing host]
20:57 -!- Isarra [~urgh@uncyclopedia/Lyrithya] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:57 -!- Isarra is now known as Lyirthya
20:57 < TeeTylerToe> they removed the image from the article afaik
20:58 < SigmaWP> In 2009
20:58 < iizyrt> SigmaWP: I have not seen you for four months. How are you?
20:58 < Lyirthya> Hello, iizyrt.
20:58 < Lyirthya> Were you that guy I banned?
20:58 < SigmaWP> I was thinking that the image was on Commons and went through a retarded deletion discussion :P
20:58 < SigmaWP> Ryan Gentry
20:58 < SigmaWP> Sounds familiar
20:58 < SigmaWP> Oh well I forgot
20:58 < TeeTylerToe> dunno what happened to the image
20:58 < ChrisGualtieri> Who cares if it was 3 years ago
20:58 < iizyrt> Lyrithya: Yeah, on uncyc.
20:59 < ChrisGualtieri> The image probably was brought up on the grounds that those album art covers were
20:59 * Lyirthya pets iizyrt.
20:59 * iizyrt purrs
20:59 < TeeTylerToe> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Virginal_Breast_Hypertrophy_01.jpg
20:59 < RD> Thank you.
21:00 < iizyrt> Why?
21:00 < SigmaWP> That seems pretty boring for commons
21:00 < ChrisGualtieri> You want to restore or put up the picture I assume?
21:01 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
21:01 < iizyrt> What was the picture?
21:01 < ChrisGualtieri> Some abnormal growth on the breast of a minor... but the circumstances of the uploader and its release status seem to have been valid concerns
21:02 < iizyrt> On the breast of a minor? Was it allowed/ if not revdeleted?
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21:02 -!- Lyirthya is now known as Isarra
21:02 < ChrisGualtieri> Its been deleted, years ago
21:03 < TeeTylerToe> I don't know if that was addressed to me ChrisGualtieri but someone was talking about censoring the picture of some naked like 2 year olds, and I just brought up that for a long time there was a picture of a 15 year old's naked breast in an article
21:04 < ChrisGualtieri> Oh the skinny dipping article... barking up that tree again?
21:05 < TeeTylerToe> ? When censoring images of child nudity was brought up in the channel I mentioned that there was this other picture that was up for a while then taken down in '09 (I didn't know at the time it had been taken down). Then the conversation moved on, then someone just now asked about a deletion log, and I posted the link
21:05 < iizyrt> question.
21:06 < ChrisGualtieri> Though to be perfectly fair, there is justifiable reason for the sub-section to have such a image, medically, and concerning the age HAS to be of a certain matter its another thing
21:06 < iizyrt> I don't think the images are allowed on http://enwp.org/Rorsach_test
21:06 < ChrisGualtieri> But the article clearly doesn't warrant the legal trouble.
21:08 * iizyrt bump
21:08 < ChrisGualtieri> What do you mean?
21:09 < iizyrt> I think I heard the Rorscach test images are "secret", I have no evidence this is true though.
21:09 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hmmm?
21:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> frankly I am tired of this child nudity thing
21:10 < ChrisGualtieri> They clearly aren't >.>
21:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> can people stfu about it?
21:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thanks
21:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> discuss somewhere else
21:10 < ChrisGualtieri> I mean why would the Rorsach test, highly popularized as they are, be considered 'secret'
21:11 -!- la_pianista [~katelante@wikipedia/La-Pianista] has quit [Quit: <3]
21:11 < iizyrt> IDK, maybe because patients could view them before they actually take it
21:11 < TeeTylerToe> well the thing is, if you know how the images are "scored" you can game the test
21:11 < ChrisGualtieri> Its also been labeled under pseudoscience so many times I cannot count them anymore
21:12 < iizyrt> TeeTyleToe: It's not a right/wrong test
21:12 < TeeTylerToe> unlike the meyers briggs, apparently the rorsach test is both reliable and verifiable
21:12 < ChrisGualtieri> Still debatable, and foreknowledge of it ruins the test
21:13 < iizyrt> exactly
21:13 < ChrisGualtieri> I doubt half the fans of 'Watchmen' found the test before the character
21:13 -!- Magog_the_Ogre [~Magog_the@wikipedia/Magog-the-Ogre] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:13 < ChrisGualtieri> But clearly the 'secret' aspect has been out for 30 years+
21:13 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:14 < TeeTylerToe> for instance, if you responded with no texture responses, the result of your test could be interpreted as edivence of schizophrenia
21:15 < ChrisGualtieri> There are other ways to test for schizophrenia >.>
21:16 < TeeTylerToe> that's just an example of how you could game the test with knowledge of it's scoring
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21:16 < ChrisGualtieri> Yes, but is it a 'secret' no
21:16 < ChrisGualtieri> Trade secrets should be barred from Wikipedia as per legal matters
21:17 < ChrisGualtieri> Though public knowledge such as the test, the cards and the 'results' are not under such protection
21:18 < TeeTylerToe> The Canadian Psychological Association takes the position that, "Publishing the questions and answers to any psychological test compromises its usefulness" and calls for "keeping psychological tests out of the public domain."
21:18 < ChrisGualtieri> They are lampooned in a great many shows, medical or otherwise, to think that any random person hasn't heard of the test or never seen any reference or card itself is just statistically impossible.
21:18 < ChrisGualtieri> Its already in the public domain is the problem, its been that way for decades.
21:19 -!- Don_Of_Cera [~ceradon@wikimedia/Ceradon] has quit [Quit: *poof*]
21:19 < TeeTylerToe> but, for instance, the exner scoring system was created in the 1970s and is not
21:19 < ChrisGualtieri> Still been out for at least a decade
21:19 < ChrisGualtieri> Is that 'common' knowledge, no
21:20 < ChrisGualtieri> But the ink blot cards themselves should not be entirely foreign to a signficiant portion of a population
21:20 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
21:20 < ChrisGualtieri> Maybe 10-20% already know more then enough to ruin it, another 20% might be able to draw out the idea in the situation when asked or showed said cards
21:21 < ChrisGualtieri> A majority might be completely unfamiliar, but to say that the images are secret and should thus be removed from Wikipedia for moral or medicial concerns are laughable
21:22 < ChrisGualtieri> The images of Muhammed (sp?) thing was far more explosive and causes more headaches then anything else to this very day
21:23 -!- peteforsyth [~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth] has quit [Quit: peteforsyth]
21:24 < TeeTylerToe> diagnostic tools need to be published for signifigant numbers of years so that they can be studied in wide usage so that it can be determined whether they are reliable or valid
21:24 < ChrisGualtieri> Again, this is entirely different from popular, main stream attention consistantly introducing an otherwise unknowing population the specifics and type of test.
21:25 < ChrisGualtieri> I could swear I seen something on Nick or Cartoon Network about the test, was it SpongeBob?
21:25 < TeeTylerToe> what?
21:27 -!- iizyrt [~crazilon@cpe-72-190-48-79.tx.res.rr.com] has left #wikipedia-en []
21:27 < ChrisGualtieri> I am trying to point out that this 'test' is often given or mocked, or lampooned in main stream media
21:27 < TeeTylerToe> So what? So are the SATs, or IQ tests
21:28 < ChrisGualtieri> IQ tests are a load of pseudoscience junk as well
21:28 < ChrisGualtieri> SATs change every year so while you can study the previous tests and do appreciably better as a result, your 'medical' matter is effectively null unless you score a perfect on the SAT
21:29 < ChrisGualtieri> The arguement that the Rorschach test is secret or somehow 'special' and should have its images removed or its well-known data is just laughable to me
21:30 < TeeTylerToe> There need to be psychological tests that have copious available research data that are secret
21:31 < TeeTylerToe> and there aren't a lot of psychological tests out there that are reliable and verifiable
21:32 < ChrisGualtieri> Well... that's not really my concern...
21:32 -!- Jetro [~Bruker@118.225.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:33 < ChrisGualtieri> Star Trek and Star Wars exist, their impact on the popular culture and technology cannot be suddenly 'dismissed' simply because their creators want to go back and change the movies or shows or whatever
21:34 < TeeTylerToe> I'm not saying you can unpublish the rorsach blots
21:34 < ChrisGualtieri> Then what you suppose be done?
21:34 -!- Doug_Weller [~Doug_Well@cpc30-mfld14-2-0-cust151.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
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21:35 < TeeTylerToe> not publish any other psychological test
21:36 < ChrisGualtieri> Yeah... >.>
21:39 < TeeTylerToe> it's a crazy world. Somebody explain how you can patent an encryption or compression algorithm?
21:39 -!- My76Strat [~chatzilla@wikipedia/My76Strat] has joined #wikipedia-en
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21:46 -!- MJ94 [~MJ94@wikimedia/mj94] has joined #wikipedia-en
21:47 < Isarra> Are wikipedian admins lazy?
21:47 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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21:52 -!- rschen7754 [~rschen775@wikipedia/rschen7754] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:52 * Isarra pours pizza sauce on the channel.
21:53 < heatherw> what is meant to happen?
21:54 < heatherw> pizza encryption
21:55 -!- My76Strat [~chatzilla@wikipedia/My76Strat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
21:55 < Isarra> Ooo.
21:55 -!- rschen7754 [~rschen775@wikipedia/rschen7754] has joined #wikipedia-en
21:55 < Isarra> I guess that was supposed to happen.
21:55 < TeeTylerToe> and compression
21:55 * Isarra takes notes.
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22:04 < Bradford> Saludos
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22:09 * SigmaWP greets the Dcoetzees
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22:14 * Isarra kidnaps them and demands ransom.
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22:18 -!- Tiptoety|away is now known as Tiptoety
22:20 < Jasper_Deng> !admin please block http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/203.208.82.27, a rather fast vandal, no response at AIV
22:21 < SigmaWP> He's not doing anything
22:21 < Jasper_Deng> yes he is
22:21 < SigmaWP> Oh, I included the comma
22:21 * Jasper_Deng remembers to not use commas after URLs
22:21 < Jasper_Deng> Thanks Tiptoety
22:22 < Tiptoety> You're welcome.
22:28 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:28 < AndrewN> Why does your URL parser even count the ,... You can't use ,'s in a URL anyway (iirc)
22:29 < Jasper_Deng> mine does not
22:29 < Jasper_Deng> but I understand that others' might
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22:47 < Headbomb> yay for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Mars_Science_Laboratory
22:47 < Shirik> with no offense Headbomb
22:47 < Shirik> I still don't understand the purpose of books
22:48 < Headbomb> rather simple really
22:48 -!- tyime [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.]
22:48 < Headbomb> it's a book
22:48 < Headbomb> it does what books do
22:48 -!- OlEnglish [OlEnglish@wikipedia/OlEnglish] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:48 < Shirik> ..
22:48 < Apheori> What do books do?
22:48 < Peter-C> No idea.
22:48 < Shirik> sit on your bookshelf and make you look smart when people come over
22:48 < Peter-C> Let’s burn some
22:48 < Headbomb> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book for a starter
22:49 < Headbomb> :p
22:49 < Shirik> Headbomb: Is that in a book?
22:49 < Apheori> Mine hold up potted plants and monitors.
22:49 < Peter-C> Headbomb - you have a COI, gtfo
22:49 < Apheori> But... eh.
22:49 < Shirik> apparently so
22:49 < Shirik> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Books
22:49 < Apheori> O_o
22:49 < Peter-C> ^his coi
22:49 < Headbomb> lol, never seen that one before
22:49 < Shirik> apparently you have
22:49 < Shirik> 14:50, 15 June 2011 Headbomb (talk | contribs | block) . . (280 bytes) (+58) . . (alphabetize, |cover-color=Lavender) (rollback | undo)
22:49 < Headbomb> or rather, i don't recall seing it
22:50 < Earwig> Headbomb: are you the single largest contributor to books?
22:50 < Headbomb> i probably edited it at some point
22:50 < Peter-C> So much coi.
22:50 < Headbomb> Earwig: probably ya
22:50 < Earwig> have you made more contributions to books than anyone else combined?
22:50 < Headbomb> AWB makes it easy
22:50 < Earwig> *everyone else
22:50 < Headbomb> no idea, but it's possible
22:51 < SigmaWP> How do I install pip for python 2 while simulatneously having it for python 3
22:51 < Headbomb> Discographer should be close behind me however
22:51 < Peter-C> Question: how did we write [[Wikipedia]] without having a COI?
22:51 < Headbomb> one of my favourite books is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Toilet_Paper
22:51 < Headbomb> perfect book for the toilet
22:51 < Earwig> SigmaWP: name one pip2 and another pip3
22:52 < SigmaWP> Earwig: I tried that, but then it failed to create process
22:52 < Earwig> Headbomb: you have 6,291; Discographer has 3,223
22:52 < Earwig> SigmaWP: sorry :(
22:52 < Earwig> ask #python
22:52 < SigmaWP> NOOOO
22:52 < Headbomb> Earwig: yeah doesn't really surprise me, I cleaned up the hell out of the book namespace like two years ago
22:53 < Headbomb> made like 500 BPRODS
22:53 < Earwig> gee, really?
22:53 < Earwig> I thought you implemented the book namespace!
22:53 < Headbomb> amongst other things yes :p
22:54 < Headbomb> I didn't do the technical side, but i did clean stuff up when books were moved from the Wikipedia namespace to the book namespace
22:54 < Apheori> Are mushrooms good for houseplants?
22:54 < Apheori> Because I have a potted fern that is just full of them.
22:54 < Headbomb> lots of syntax cleanup too
22:54 < Headbomb> and i probably created ~100 books or so
22:55 < Headbomb> or maybe it's 250
22:55 < Shirik> the more I mess with wikipedia, the more I find words that wikipedians like
22:55 < Headbomb> i don't really keep count
22:55 < Headbomb> like i have too many edits, edit counter just break
22:57 < Headbomb> in general books on bands are super easy to make
22:57 < Headbomb> books on countries are the worse
22:57 < SigmaWP> #python scares me
22:57 < Headbomb> you can even use scripts to convert band navboxes to books
22:58 < Headbomb> if the navbox is there, it takes like 30 seconds to make the book, and maybe 5 minutes to cleanup with AWB
22:58 -!- OlEnglish [OlEnglish@S0106602ad08246c6.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:58 -!- OlEnglish [OlEnglish@S0106602ad08246c6.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host]
22:58 -!- OlEnglish [OlEnglish@wikipedia/OlEnglish] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:59 < Headbomb> books on countries can easily take several hours to make
22:59 < SigmaWP> Oh
22:59 < SigmaWP> Earwig: I had to rename python.exe to python3.exe
23:00 < Earwig> ewwgod
23:00 < SigmaWP> What, Windows?
23:00 < Earwig> oh right, you're in windows
23:02 < Peter-C> I wanna go to Ball So Hard Uni
23:02 < Peter-C> I wonder if I can make the cut
23:03 -!- haggis [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
23:03 < SigmaWP> Peter-C: Coal Ball So Hard Uni
23:03 < Peter-C> What is with you and coal balls.
23:03 < SigmaWP> A giant speck of dust just flew toward my face, and then away
23:04 * SigmaWP watches it land on his desk
23:04 < Peter-C> JESUS CHRIST
23:04 < Peter-C> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/6_weeks_pregnant.png
23:04 < Peter-C> That thing becomes a baby
23:05 < Peter-C> ಠ_ಠ
23:06 < SigmaWP> What's the apt-get equivalent for windows
23:06 < Apheori> It doesn't have one.
23:06 < Peter-C> Google.
23:07 < SigmaWP> Not even on cygwin?
23:07 < Brooke> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Packaging_Tool
23:07 < Apheori> You have to go locate something, manually download it from a sketchy website, and then install it whilst ignoring a bunch of popup errors.
23:08 < Peter-C> ^
23:08 < Apheori> And how the crap did this pot full of three plants become a pot full of six plants of the exact same size in a month?
23:08 -!- Fasttimes68 [~Fasttimes@c-69-143-18-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:08 < Apheori> Nevermind the fact that the original three plants didn't exactly fit in the pot in the first place...
23:09 -!- rschen7754 [~rschen775@wikipedia/rschen7754] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:09 < Shirik> no
23:09 < Shirik> fuck apt
23:09 < Shirik> portage
23:09 < Apheori> Portage is nice.
23:09 < Apheori> But complicated.
23:10 < Shirik> it also works
23:10 < SigmaWP> Gentoo noobs :P
23:10 < Apheori> Doesn't apt?
23:10 < Shirik> apt does exactly what you tell it to do
23:10 < Apheori> Granted I've used portage more than I have apt, but... eh.
23:10 < Apheori> Personally I prefer pacman.
23:10 < Shirik> unfortunately it is very good at being told to install things that are incompatible or missing
23:10 < Shirik> and then you only find out at runtime
23:10 < Apheori> O_o
23:11 < Shirik> the beauty of portage is if you can compile it, you can run it
23:11 < Apheori> Isn't apt for idiot-friendy distros?
23:11 < Shirik> sure
23:11 < Shirik> but the moment you try to do something relatively complex, that's what happens
23:11 < SigmaWP> What distribution are you using, Apheori ?
23:11 < Apheori> I've found that even if portage won't compile it things'll still run. >.>
23:11 < Apheori> On which computer?
23:11 < SigmaWP> The one you're on
23:11 < SigmaWP> Now
23:12 < Shirik> well yeah, if it doesn't compile, it doesn't get installed :)
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23:12 < Apheori> This one has arch, ubuntu, and possibly one or two others I never use.
23:12 < Shirik> also, use flags are really cool
23:12 < Apheori> But I'm currently using windows.
23:12 < Shirik> does apt have something similar? I don't know
23:12 < Apheori> You can compile things without portage, though. >_>
23:12 < SigmaWP> With Konversation?
23:12 < Apheori> Yes.
23:12 < Shirik> sure, but portage makes it easy
23:13 < SigmaWP> Oh, KDE for windows
23:13 < Apheori> How do you use portage to install a version it doesn't want to?
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23:13 < Apheori> I mean, suppose you got the source somewhere else, I assume you can make portage compile that instead somehow and handle things prettily?
23:13 < Shirik> emerge =foo/bar-1.2.3
23:15 < Shirik> but most importanttly
23:15 < Shirik> I can restrict emacs from being installed
23:15 < Shirik> that way if I accidentally try to install it
23:15 < Shirik> portage is just like "no fuck you"
23:16 < Apheori> I would hope any decent package manager would be able to do that.
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23:17 < Shirik> lol, portage is mad at me
23:17 < Shirik> * Last emerge --sync was 257d 5h 56m 56s ago.
23:17 < Shirik> I guess I should update
23:17 < Apheori> O_o
23:17 < Apheori> ....maybe.
23:18 < Shirik> this box has been running so nicely
23:18 < Shirik> I don't really pay any attention to it
23:19 < Apheori> When I was using ubuntu I got stuck on a version I liked and just never updated it and it worked so nicely. Then they took down the repositories for that and I was forced to find a new distro.
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23:27 < Apheori> Shirik!
23:28 -!- quanticle|away is now known as quanticle
23:28 < Apheori> Do you know what the package that makes there be a mouse in the terminals is called?
23:28 -!- andrewcrawford [~andrewcra@cpc3-cast8-2-0-cust294.20-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
23:28 < Shirik> there's ncurses but that's really an api
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23:33 < Isarra> Does it make there be a pointer?
23:34 < BlastHardcheese> gpm
23:37 < Isarra> Squeee!
23:39 * Shirik throws a http://i.imgur.com/INX9o.jpg at Isarra
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23:44 < jorm> stupid puppies.
23:46 < Earwig> jerk
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23:47 < Shirik> jorm :(
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23:53 * Apheori throws a dog at jorm.
23:54 * jorm bites the dog.
23:55 < Apheori> You want it to bite back?
23:55 < jorm> not if i bite its muzzle off.
23:55 < Apheori> You're scary.
23:56 < Apheori> For dogs, at least.
23:57 < jorm> for all things.
23:57 < Apheori> Do you practice?
23:57 < jorm> daily.
23:57 < Apheori> How's it working out?
23:58 < jorm> its getting better all the time.
23:58 < Apheori> Cool.
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 08 00:00:01 2012
